Choosing Remarkable with Jon Acuff

Jon Acuff is a New York Times bestselling author of 11 books, including Soundtracks, Finish, and All It Takes Is a Goal, which together have sold more than one million copies. His newest book, Procrastination Proof: Never Get Stuck Again (Baker Books, April 14, 2026), argues that procrastination isn't a character flaw but a learned coping mechanism, drawn from more than a decade of research and testing with over 30,000 participants. Named one of Inc.'s Top 100 Leadership Speakers, Acuff has delivered keynotes for organizations including Microsoft, Walmart, FedEx, Nissan, and Comedy Central.

Acuff hosts the podcast All It Takes Is a Goal, where he has helped hundreds of thousands of listeners move past overthinking and finish what matters most to them. On this episode of Practical Wisdom for Leaders, he and host Scott Allen dig into “seven reasons people don't choose remarkable,” drawing on stories from his own career, including his years working alongside Dave Ramsey and starting over in his thirties. Acuff lives outside Nashville with his wife and two daughters.

A Few Quotes From This Episode

• “Procrastination is when your actions don't match your intentions. Remarkable is the opposite, when your actions match your intentions.”
• “You're the most persuasive person you've ever met. You talked yourself into every decision, often bad ones.”
• “Most resolutions fail because we try to do something for a year we've never done for a day.”

Resources

• Book: Procrastination Proof: Never Get Stuck Again by Acuff
• All of Jon's Books

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

• The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in studying, practicing, and teaching leadership. Attend The Global Conference in Toronto, October 28-31.

About  Scott J. Allen

• Website
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My Approach to Hosting

• The views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace your reflection, research, and exploration of the topic.

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Transcript

Scott Allen: [00:00:00] Thanks for checking in from wherever you are in the world. Welcome to Practical Wisdom for Leaders, the official podcast of the International Leadership Association. I'm your host, Scott J. Allen, and each week I invite executives and scholars to explore the real work of leadership. This podcast is part of a global community committed to helping leaders thrive.

If you find these conversations valuable, connect with me on LinkedIn, subscribe to the podcast, and share this episode with others. To learn more about me, visit www.scottjallen.net. And now, here's today's episode. 

Scott Allen: Okay, everybody, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for checking in wherever you are in the world, Practical Wisdom for Leaders.

And today, I have Jon Acuff, a returning guest, just a guest that I absolutely love having conversations with. He is a, a New York Times bestselling author. He is a keynoter. He is... You know, Jon, I have a w- I call this kind of the, the, we're c- we're moving [00:01:00] into summer, so I have a Jon Acuff- Yeah ... gazpacho. Are you ready?

Gazpacho. Oh, yeah. This is the Jon- 

Jon Acuff: Let's, let's hear it. 

Scott Allen: Do you know gazpacho? Let's hear it. Do you know gazpacho? It's a tomato-based I've had it. 

Jon Acuff: I, I don't know if I know it personally, but I- Yeah ... I've eaten it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. 

Scott Allen: Cold soup, summer soup. Yeah. And this is why I, I really appreciate you. Th- this is my, this is my Jon Acuff gazpacho.

The, the base, the tomato, that is your- The, the- That, that's your curiosity. The, you are fueled- Okay ... you are fueled by curiosity, my friend. Now, gazpacho- Mm ... has some cucumber in it, and that, for me, is your passion for the work that you do. So that's in there. A g- good gazpacho oftentimes has a little green pepper.

For me, that's your humor. I think that- Thanks ... differentiates you and, and really just your humor just really adds a lot to the, to the, to the dish. Uh, onion. Uh, your vulnerability, especially in this latest book. Mm. And maybe you've been vulnerable in other books, but i- in this book, you do a [00:02:00]really nice job of kind of bringing us into you, some of the struggles you've- We-

had over the years, and I think that's just a really, really powerful, uh, kind of attribute that you bring to the table. And then finally, you know, you just do such a beautiful job of integrating. I can listen to your work, and I know that you've done the research. I know you're, you're citing meta-analyses that-

that the reader could read but doesn't want to. But you've done- No, no. Yeah ... that research. You- Yeah ... you've done that research. So- Yeah ... for me, you know what? It's curiosity, passion, humor, vulnerability, integration. I just love the work that you do, and so super excited for this conversation. Super excited for, uh, a quick kind of...

We're gonna not totally land on all aspects of the most recent book- Mm. Mm ... but kind of land on one area that really caught my attention in a nice way. But- You know, uh, I think there's some words in this most recent book, and I have to tell you a quick story before we [00:03:00] jump in. I was- 

Scott J. Allen: Mm ... on a walk this morning, and my neighbor paused and, and she looked at me and she said, "What you up to?"

And I said, "Oh, I'm listening to a book for a podcast I'm doing today." And she said- Mm ... "Oh, okay." I said, "Yeah, I'm about three hours in. It's about six hours. It's about procrastination." And she's like- 

Jon Acuff: Yeah ... "

Scott Allen: Well, good job. You need it." 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. You better put that on like 4X speed- ... if you're talking to him later.

Yeah. 

Scott Allen: So, you know, and 

Jon Acuff: I- I waited until today. The book's been out a month, but today's the day. Yeah. 

Scott Allen: So I started it- So good ... I started it yesterday. Yeah. I got two more hours in today, so I'm three hours in. There you go. In full transparency. Let's 

Jon Acuff: go. Let's go. 

Scott Allen: But, but I love it. So, you know, you've got some big words in here, uh, permission, remarkable.

And I love this word- Mm-hmm ... remarkable. Uh, but the book is about why we procrastinate. But, um, where I wanna center the conversation today, you have this- Mm ... passage. It's seven reasons people don't choose remarkable And so [00:04:00] let's, let's go there. Is that cool? Can we kind of go in 

Jon Acuff: that direct- Oh, I would love to.

It's funny, I don't think... I've done probably 50 or 60 podcast interviews for this book, and no one's centered on that. So when you said, "Hey, what if we..." I was thrilled. Yeah. I think this is gonna be fun. Awesome. 

Scott Allen: Awesome.

Jon Acuff: Yeah, I was like, I don't have to do the same stories. Like, let's go. 

Scott Allen: Cool. Cool. 

Jon Acuff: Okay.

There's the vulnerability. I get to talk about something different. Let's go. 

Scott Allen: Yes, exactly. So, you know, um, what do you think? I mean, a- and if you want to set up the book for listeners, you totally can. But- Yeah. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah ... 

Scott Allen: um, you know, what do you think? Seven reasons. 

Jon Acuff: Well, the concept of the book, so I define procrastination as when your actions don't match your intentions.

Um, who you say you wanna be isn't who you're being. There's a gap. Yep. And for some people, there's a really wide gap. And remarkable is the opposite of that. When your actions match your intentions, when there... The Venn diagram looks like a, an eclipse. Like, the two things are so closely related that who you say you wanna be is who you're being.

So I started to [00:05:00] think through, okay, if you were given the choice to be remarkable or not, no one would ever choose not. If I said to you, "Scott, you can have an average marriage where, like, you're kind of just partners and you're like two ships that live in the same house, but you don't really ever cross.

And eventually when your kids go to college, you get a divorce, and you go out on the dating scene and discover that's a disaster. Or you can have a remarkable marriage." Like, which one? No one goes, "Give me that first one." You know, number... Yeah. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. Number 

Jon Acuff: two. Same with finances. Like, you'd never say, like, one of the largest Kickstarters right now in our country is for funerals, meaning people are so destitute at the end of their lives, their family, in the midst of tragedy, now has to crowdsource a burial.

Like, oh my gosh. So if I said to you, "Scott, your kids will have to panhandle for your funeral, or you could make, like, a good amount of money and be responsible with it and steward it, blah, blah, blah. Which one?" Yeah. You wouldn't go, "I want my kids raising money for my funeral." 10, 10 grand. That'll show 'em.

That'll [00:06:00] show 'em. And I, and I ha- I want a teak coffin. I don't even know if those are nice. So then I was like, "Well, why don't people choose remarkable?" And that's where that started. So, like, the genesis of that idea was like, no one would ever willingly choose average or below average, so why don't we... And so the list started there, and then I just started to kinda go, okay- The people I know, the research I've seen, like one reason they don't choose it, the first one was they don't even know it exists.

Um- Hmm ... and I was able to see that because I live in a weird city. I live e- outside of Nashville, and people here have weird jobs. And like one of my examples, um, was the guy who wins the Christmas tree lighting in our neighborhood every year is, does lighting for Eric Clapton and Miranda Lambert. So he's at a bit of an advantage.

He's an amazing guy. But that job only exists in very small pockets of the country, so he didn't know that was even a possibility. So I live in a city where people have discovered like, "Oh no, I can be a [00:07:00] tour manager." Like I know somebody the other day, they're a tour manager. They just went and did like 10 days in Dubai with MrBeast 'cause they were off of the tour with Hardy, this country musician.

It's like, that's a weird job. Sometimes we just don't even know it's possible. Yeah. No one in your city was a writer. No one was a professor. The idea that you could be a professor was so- Yeah ... so it's not that they're choosing not to choose it, they just don't even know it's an option. So that's the first reason I think sometimes people don't choose Remarkable.

Scott Allen: Yep, yep, and, and yeah, to your point, I grew up in Pocatello, Idaho, and I wasn't- Yeah ... exposed to really any of those opportunities or any of those options. You were gonna be a rancher or whatever it is, right? I mean, that was the family 

Jon Acuff: business. How, how did you make ste- like when did you, when did you bump into other possibilities?

Scott Allen: I had a professor in graduate school who said, "You know, you could get a doctorate." And I, and I'd never, I had never even identified as someone who could achieve that. Yeah. And she was Brenda Gardner. She was the woman who looked at me- [00:08:00] Mm-hmm ... and opened doors to something I never would've even thought possible.

So that, that immediately comes to mind for me. I never thought of it. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. Isn't that wild that, like, it wasn't that you had a six-month mentorship and she did a million thing. I'm assuming. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jon Acuff: Like, it 

Scott Allen: was- Moment. Moment. It was a sentence. Moment. Ah. Changed my life. I went home, I started doing research, but it was a sentence, right?

Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah, I- Fundamentally changed the traject- trajectory 

Jon Acuff: And what's interesting about that is it actually ties into the second reason. Often somebody told the person, "You don't get to be remarkable." Like, you were... They had the opposite experience. I didn't... Not only did I not have a professor speak that into me, I had a professor say the opposite, or I had a teacher say, "You're not a natural leader."

And I was young enough to just believe people in authority, not question people in authority, and I just accepted it. And then for the next 30 years, I listened to what I would call that soundtrack for o- over and over and over again. So then, like, then [00:09:00] I've gotta overcome that, um- 

Scott Allen: 100% ...

Jon Acuff: which again is why it's wild and even, like, it could be on a podcast that you do, that the words we do.

And that's what's fun for me. As I've become more successful in writing, I'm able to encourage younger writers in a different way. Um, like, for me, my moment, Steven Pressfield, uh, my, my favorite book probably, top three for me, I, I have to say the Bible 'cause I'm a Christian, and by law you have to be like, "Oh, who would I have dinner with?

Jesus." But other than Jesus, we have this whole thing where we go, "Other than Jesus, other than the Bible." So other than the Bible, Scott, um, is Steven Pressfield's War of Art. Mm-hmm. And I, I wrote him asking for an endorsement on my first business book, a book called Quitter, and I, and I was terrified, and I asked him for an endor- I remember where I was when I got it.

He emailed me back. I was in Crested Butte, Colorado in the back of an old Suburban, and I got an email and he said, "I don't know what else you're doing right now in life, but quit. Whatever else you're doing, quit. You have to write." Wow. [00:10:00] Like, you have to. And it like, he poured into me, and it was that kind of moment.

So the reverse, though, happens for a lot of people, where somebody told you, you know, a pastor, a coach, a teacher, a parent, God forbid, says like, "Hey, here's the limit of what you're ca- uh, capable of," or, "You're this type of person." And where you see that, Scott, is, like, later on in life, people will tell you their labels and they'll say things like, "Well, I'm not athletic."

Yep. And then that's a label. And then they'll say My sister was the athletic one, I was the smart one. Yeah. And you're like, "Oh, this was from seventh grade." 

Scott Allen: Yeah, you've 

Jon Acuff: carried this- "This label has a 30-year runway." 

Scott Allen: Oh my gosh. 

Jon Acuff: Like, oh. Um, and then we come up for, with clever ways to say it and kinda justify it.

I- Somebody told me, uh, my, my, my biggest muscle's always been my brain, which is just like a clever way to kinda justify it. And so, so I think that's part of the reason we don't choose remarkable, is the voices we've believed along the way too. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay, so, [00:11:00] and I know in the book you kinda talk about like don't let this chart your course.

This may have happened, but you can, you can- Mm-hmm ... move forward from these things. But for me, a moment like that was it's eighth grade, I've got a D in, in math- Mm-hmm ... geometry. Like numbers are becoming- Yeah ... letters, Pythagorean's Theorem, there's all these triangles- Yeah ... circles and shit. And- 

Jon Acuff: Why do we care so much about triangles?

What's going on? Why? Why of all the shapes, triangles are where we based our life. 

Scott Allen: I can't even spell isosceles or say it. Yeah. And you know, and so, um, and, and, and yeah, my, the, the, the teacher who was probably about ready to retire, who's burnt out- Mm-hmm ... and my mom- Yeah ... they looked at me and they're like, "You're probably not a math kid."

And so- Yeah ... yeah, that's one of those things. And I love space, I love anything having to do with physics. I mean, I will consume that content. Now I may not have been Einstein, but oh my gosh- Yeah ... I have a passion for those topics. 

Jon Acuff: Mm-hmm. 

Scott Allen: But I carried that with me forward- Sure ... until at my PhD when I started saying, "Okay, I'm gonna learn statistics.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna maybe not be, again, [00:12:00] Einstein, but I know I can do this," right? 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. So yeah. And now you have a PhD, which is cra- I mean, again, that, if you could tell that eighth grade you, like, "Hey, I know this just got said, but like I'm gon- like I'm gonna blow your mind in the future." You have a PhD.

Yeah. People pay you to come teach them. In addition to universities, the top brands in the world pay you for your idea. Like- ... I know you can't believe it right now 'cause you just got this label or whatever. So yeah, I think that's what's... Yeah, that, that's why permission matters, is giving yourself permission to say, "No, I'm getting my PhD.

I'm gonna get into statis- yeah, statistics. Like I need to do that." Yeah. So like, and I have permission to change that old la- la, that old label. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Okay, number three. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah, um, often we feel like it's gonna be too complicated. Remarkable is complicated. And I kind of, the example I use is what I would consider a really, uh, broken soundtrack, which is things like mo money, mo problems.

We, in our culture, believe [00:13:00] the more money I have, the more stress. The more money I have, the more problems. And I've had no money and I've had some money. Like, I... The way I like to say it, when we were newly married, I didn't know we were poor, I just thought we liked camping. And- 

Scott Allen: I told myself ramen was good.

Jon Acuff: Yeah. I said to my wife, like, "We sure were outdoorsy when we were young." And she was like, "No, we were broke." Like, we didn't like camping. It was only $11 a night at a campsite. That's the only place we could afford to sleep on vacation, was $11. I was like, "Now that you say it, we were poor." And I just started to put the pieces together.

Yeah. But I've had no money and I've had some money. And some money, like you can fix the problems. Like, when a, when a transmission goes in a car and you have no money, it's a disaster. When you have some money, it's an inconvenience. But if you think on the outside, "If I write a book, if I go to get my PhD, if I start a podcast, like it's gonna be so complicated.

[00:14:00] W- you know, how would I even do it?" You talk yourself out of it- It's big ... before you even try. And you also look at the... You sometimes look at the end too quickly. Meaning- Yeah ... if you wanted to start a podcast and you told me, "John, but I'm not good at YouTube," I would say, "You don't have to be good at YouTube right away."

Yeah. Like, you just, it's a mic. Like, it's a, like go, go at the smallest level to it. But you look at the end goal sometimes and you go... I've had people say to me, um, "Well, I wanna write a book, but I don't want it to get stolen by somebody else, and then I'd have to figure out like copyright infringement, and I'd, I don't know a lawyer."

And I'm like, "The book doesn't exist yet." What? Like- 

Scott Allen: That is some mental gymnastics. That is two twists with like a back 

Jon Acuff: flip. Yeah. I'm like, I, I sometimes tell people, "Go get that problem." I'll tell, I'll tell them, "Go get that problem." 'Cause they'll go, I, I... In other words, they'll say, "I wanna be an entrepreneur, but I don't wanna get a divorce and I don't wanna abandon my kids."

As if there's two options. Stayed on the dream you care about and feel [00:15:00] called to, or divorce and your kids don't know your name. Like, there's a lot of other options, like- But it, but they're worried about it's gonna be so com- And I always say like, "Go get the problem where you have to hire help." Yeah. Like, go get that problem.

That'd be an ama- I would love for you, your problem to be like, "We don't have enough inventory." Yeah. And it's like, what an amazing problem. Let's go, let's go get it first. But if you pre-decide it's too complicated, you won't take any of the steps. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. Yeah. And I think these things can be really big in our heads.

And I had a guest on, Robert Livingston, he's at Harvard Kennedy School, or was at the time, and he said something to the effect of, "When it comes to mental gymnastics, most of us are Olympians." Right? Yeah. I mean, it, just even the examples you gave, I mean, it's fascinating how you land From here to, well, I'm never gonna be Steven Bartlett, so, you know, 

Jon Acuff: I don't 

Scott Allen: know.

Jon Acuff: Yeah, why would I even try that? Yeah. Why would I... So the thing, here's where I, in my- I don't have 

Scott Allen: glass in my studio and orbs and silver cups 

Jon Acuff: I don't even know Elon. I don't know, like, how would I even do [00:16:00] that? You're like, "I don't know Matthew McConaughey. I can't start a podcast," and you're like, "What?" No, my version of that, that I've started to ask is, in my field, people s- love to tell me I'm leaving money on the table.

There's this fictional pile of cash somewhere that is, that I'm leaving on the table, and it's apparently also very easy to get, and I'm being dumb by not just getting it. Yeah. And they'll go, "Oh," and then they'll name somebody who is getting it, and they'll go, "So-and-so is killing it," and they never mention the work they do.

So now what I've started to do is they'll go, "Oh, so-and-so's killing it," and I'll go, "Have they written 11 books? Oh, they... No, that's their whole thing?" Like, YouTube is their entire business. It's not my entire business, so I, I'm gonna do the things I do and do them to the best of my abilities, but I'm not gonna go, "Oh, I'm missing out on something that I really am not trying to build anyway."

Yeah. And, and so, like, the mental gymnastics part of it, my version of that is I tell people all the time, "You're the most persuasive person you've ever met." Yes. Um, be- you know, like, you just are. Yes. Like, because you talked yourself into every [00:17:00] decision, often bad ones, where you're like, "This is gonna work out."

Like, this is totally... And then it doesn't, and you're like, "Who talked me into that?" Like, yeah, you did. 

Scott Allen: You did. You, you 

Jon Acuff: You, you did. You're great at you. You are the best you salesman in the world. I tell people that all the time. 

Scott Allen: Oh, I love it. I love it. Okay, so, uh, we're on four, right? Yeah, four. 

Jon Acuff: Okay. So four is related to that marriage thing I just touched on.

Four is they believe remarkable is a limited resource, meaning if I choose it in one part of my life, the other parts of my life have to suffer. And, and the, this one starts because often we have an example of that. Like, we worked with a leader who was the top leader at the company but had a train wreck of a marriage, or had a series of bad marriages, or their kids didn't talk to them, or their health was really, really terrible 'cause they're always on the road.

And we think that's what, to get that level of excellence or remarkable, I, I have to be that. And what I like to argue is discipline is contagious. Like, [00:18:00] usually what happens is when you work on one area of your life, it bleeds over into others. Like, all of a sudden... You know, I saw that. I, I worked for, uh, Dave Ramsey for three years, and I would see that in, at his events all the time.

People would come up and go, "Hey, your book changed my marriage." And he... And we would go, "What?" Like, it's a financial... It's about budgeting and envelopes. Like, what are you... And they would say, "No, when we got serious about that, we got serious about how we talked with each other, and we started to be more honest with each other, and all that changed our marriage."

And so I think that's what often happens if we allow it to happen. 

Scott Allen: Yep. 

Jon Acuff: Um, if we, if we allow it to spread to other parts, other parts of our life. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. Well, and again, uh, uh, I think it's that, it's that- That thinking that is either/or, it's not both/and. You know, I think the question is, how do I have a really successful speaking business and an incredible marriage and an incredible relationship with my daughters?

That's- 

Jon Acuff: Yeah, and, and, and make those, but [00:19:00] also it's the decision to say, "This is my definition of success." Yes. 

Scott Allen: Yes, 100%. Like, 

Jon Acuff: because if you don't have that, the world will sell you a lot of bad definitions. Yes. And so I had a leader who was 58 the other day tell me, he was ta- and he's, he's years ahead of me in, in a bunch of different levels, but he was like, "Yeah, there's a couple of vanity numbers I no longer care about."

And I was like, "Oh." And he's like, "Yeah, when you get to 58 you just start to see some things as vanity numbers." And I was like, "Well, I'm 50, I'm just not gonna, I'm not gonna wait. Like, what are the vanity numbers?" You know? Like, and it was- Save me some time ... it, it was some social media stuff. Like, save me some time.

Like- 

Scott Allen: Yeah ...

Jon Acuff: if this doesn't matter but this does. So I think that's part of it is, like, for you, like, for you, h- you know, if, if I said, "Okay, your definition of success or the areas you really think about being successful in," what would you say the areas are? 

Scott Allen: For me personally? 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. 

Scott Allen: Uh, in- incredible family life.

Jon Acuff: Mm-hmm. 

Scott Allen: work that fuels my curiosity [00:20:00] consistently. Mm-hmm. So for instance, I was in higher ed for 17 years, professor of management, had a job for life, was no longer feeling fulfilled in that role- Mm-hmm ... so made a transition. And now doing work that I'm completely turned on by. So there's this, there's this insatiable curiosity that I have as well, and if I stay in that space, that's where I do all of my best work.

Mm-hmm. So it's, it's family, it's curiosity, and then it's shared experiences with, uh, with my loved ones and, and close friends. Mm. And so it's- Mm ... travel. Like, our goal was to get our kids to all 50 states. Uh, we've now started traveling the world a little bit on our way- Oh, I love it ... close to... Yeah, so, so that, for me, is a life well-lived, making enough money to, to, to fund that- 

Jon Acuff: Mm-hmm

Scott Allen: working on things that fuel me, and surrounding myself with people I love and care about. That's... And, and you know, you talk about it in the book. You, look, who are you spending time with? And that's an important- Mm-hmm ... decision rule because are you spending time with folks who help you elevate to the next level, or are you [00:21:00] spending time with folks who are dragging you down, right?

Scott J. Allen: Mm-hmm. 

Jon Acuff: So for me- Yeah, and if you're not careful, if you don't review, that's part of the review. Like, oh- Yeah ... wait, is this the... Am I where I wanna be? Yeah. And if I'm not, what are some changes I can make? Yeah. But I think a lot of people don't get... They're not introspective enough. Um, I, I tell people you should be the greatest note-taker about your life.

Like, you should be a documentarian about your life. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jon Acuff: Um, and pay attention to, oh, this lit me up. Oh, this was the, this... You know, and constantly, you know, I've, I think about that a lot. 

Scott Allen: Well, you... And, and you're an incredible note-taker. I've sat next to you while you're listening to random people on the stage, and you're- Mm

capturing, capturing little bites and taking it down- Mm-hmm ... and, and consuming and taking it in. I mean, I've, I've witnessed that firsthand. Well, for 

Jon Acuff: us, I mean, our job, like, we get to sit in 50 of the best classrooms a year. Um, you know, like, and if you pay attention, you get to learn individually, but then you also get to help the next company- Yeah

and go, "Hey, here's a thing I..." And, like, every time you help a certain sector of Lexis, the next one benefits too [00:22:00] because- Yeah ... you go, "I got this question last time, so I wanna go ahead and a- answer it because I think five of you probably have the question, too. And that person was brave enough to say it, so here's what," you know?

Yep. And it's just rolling. That's that rolling curiosity. Like, it's, uh, it's rolling downhill gathering other things. 

Scott Allen: 100%. 100%. Okay. Are we on five? We're on five. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah, five. 

Scott Allen: Okay. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. So, uh, this one, number five, speaking of people and community is they're afraid remarkable will cost them community. 

Scott Allen: Hmm. 

Jon Acuff: Um, and this, this comes about a few ways.

Somebody the other day, uh, a guy in his 50s, we were talking about broken soundtracks, and he said, "I have a broken soundtrack around food." And I was like, "All right, well tell me about that." And he said, "In my family, food was comfort, food was culture, food was togetherness, food was celebration, food was..." Big Southern family.

And so he said, "I feel like for me to get healthy is to disown my family, to, you know, disobey my family, to like, how... What do I do with Thanksgiving? If I [00:23:00] show up and my mom, who loves to love me, by like, 'I made your favorite whatever.'" Like, and I tell her, "Oh no, just a little." Like I don't... How do I... You know, so there's this sense of if I change my life and become remarkable, will that lead to isolation?

Yeah. And the reality is there are some relationships you'll no longer have because there's people in our life who throw water, not fuel. Yeah. Like, there's people I know that would say... 'Cause y- again, you and I have a unique job where it's like, "Well, why do you keep doing that? Why did you get up..." I got up, I got up yesterday at, um, at 3:30 to catch a, an early flight back from Seattle.

Like, that wasn't a easy trip. Like- 

Scott Allen: Nope ...

Jon Acuff: and there's people that would say like, "Why did you... Like why do you..." If you have a very kind of normal job, the idea of doing some work on a Saturday is like, "What are you doing? Why don't you leave it at the office? Why do..." You know? And so those are the type of people that I have to be careful with about how I sh- share my goals.

'Cause if I say, "I [00:24:00] want to accomplish blank. I wanna, you know, make X amount of money," they go, "What would you even do with that?" Like, their definition of a lot I've just violated. Yeah. And now if they have their own broken soundtracks about money equals selfishness, then they're, they're totally gonna tell me like, "Wow, must be nice," or like, "Wow," like, "How selfish."

Like, and so you just have to be careful. But what you find is when you become remarkable, remarkable people want to be with you. Yeah. Like, you get to hang out with people that do throw fuel, not water. That do go, "Oh my gosh," like, "That... You tried this. Have you ever tried that?" Like, "Here's something um-" Yep.

And you link arms with those people and you get an entirely different community. It's- And I'm not, I don't mean that- ... 

Scott Allen: appreciative, right? It's appreci- I mean, it builds up. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. 

Jon Acuff: Well, and I don't mean that in the, the cheap, the cheap kind of fast way of that online is you got haters, you should drop toxic people.

I think we overuse that as an excuse to push out people who give us real [00:25:00] feedback sometimes. Mm-hmm. Like, somebody who m- somebody who gives me real feedback that helps me grow isn't a toxic person. Like, it's somebody who's trying to help me, and they're not a hater. They're somebody who goes, "Hey, I think you could do that better."

And if it's somebody I know and trust, then great. But I, I just think you have to be smart about that because that community helps set the pace. They help set what's n- like, your, the new normal, um, the, the, the new excitement, the new generosity. Like, and, and so you actually do get community. You just sometimes will have to make some community decisions that are initially uncomfortable.

Scott Allen: Yeah. Yeah. And I think we all have those relationships. My wife and I, y- you've had this happen for sure. You go out with another couple and- Yeah ... you have a dinner, and you, you're driving home and you're like, "Did they ask one question the whole- Yeah ... the whole night?" Yeah. Like, did- Yeah ... was there any... Did anything come back over the fence about us?

No. Or was it just about- Yeah ... their pickleball? No. I don't know. You know? Yeah. And so, um, but [00:26:00] w- we're constantly kind of just curating, like, okay, we're probably not gonna put a lot of energy into that one. And- Mm-hmm ... and again, it's not like you're elitist, but who are those, who are those individuals and what are those circles that are gonna help you be the best version of you and be remarkable?

And I think it requires a little bit of discernment and curation. I mean, it just- Yeah ... it kinda does, right? 

Jon Acuff: Well, and I, I would say you mentioned, that's a great word, Scott, elitist. I, I do a workout called F3, which is, um, air- held outside. It's free. It's for men. It's rain or shine. Some days it's eight degrees, some days it's 90, and all of those guys are at different economic levels.

Like, that's not the thing that unites us. What unites us is we already did a hard thing. Yes. We got out in the dark at 5:30. Yes. Like, 99% of the other guys sleeping in the houses near us are not doing that. And then we worked out for 45 minutes in a difficult way, so that's what bonds us. So there's no- 

Scott Allen: No

Jon Acuff: like, when I say you hang out with other remarkable people, it doesn't mean financially. Yep. It can- It can, yep ... but it doesn't mean [00:27:00] that all... It could be strong marriage. Like, have you ever gone out with a couple where you're like, "Boy, they don't like each other"? Yeah. 

Scott Allen: Oh, yeah, 100%. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. 

Scott Allen: They asked us nothing and, and they kinda hate each other.

Yeah. Did 

Jon Acuff: you... Yeah. Like, it wasn't... I think there, or, like, have you ever, uh, for us, it like, there's guys I know and I'm like, "Do you ever spend time with your wife?" Yeah. Like, could I seem like... I'm like, "Oh," then I told Jenny this, and they're like, "Ah, I don't talk to my wife about business." And I'm like, "Just all of it?

Your whole career, not-" Just- "... like, that's off limits?" Like, I c- how would I even do any of this? Like- 

Scott Allen: We have a- We've had- We, we have a couple that at times, I mean, it's happened five or six times over about 10 years, where something is communicated and it's, like, a fairly significant kind of piece- Yeah, yeah

of information, like, with us, with us there. And the other person's- Yeah ... like, "For real? We're getting a dog? You've ordered a dog?" You know? 

Jon Acuff: Yeah, yeah, totally. "You bought a boat? When is it getting delivered?" What 

Scott Allen: is [00:28:00] this? 

Jon Acuff: No. No, I don't- Um- For me, I- Yeah, yeah ... yeah, I just, I, uh, I wrote on LinkedIn today, uh- A post about seven reasons your spouse doesn't support your dream.

Yeah. And it's kind of related to this question of like, okay, well, how are you bringing them into it? Yeah. Like, how are you showing them actions, not just words? Like, 'cause it's easy to... Like, Jenny for years heard me say I was gonna write a book someday. You can't support just words. Like, that's exhausting and useless.

Yeah. But when I started getting up earlier in the morning, she could be like, "Oh, something's different." Like, oh, like that a spouse can get on board with. But yeah, so I think part of it is that who's in your circle, who's outside your circle, who do you... And you're right, you, you curate it and you figure it out over time.

Yeah. Like, it ta- it takes time, like anything good. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, six. 

Jon Acuff: They, uh, the sixth reason people, uh, don't choose remarkable is they're worried about public criticism. And, and like a lot of these on the list, this has like a grain of truth. There's a kernel of truth to this. [00:29:00] Um, meaning like I didn't have a one-star review written about me until I wrote a book.

Like, when I was a copywriter at Home Depot writing about rugs, no one ever was like, no stranger on Amazon was like, "Have you read Jon Acuff's rug headlines? He doesn't understand rugs." Like, "He's terrible at sitting in a cubicle. He slouches. His body language is," whatever. But as soon as I released the book, now I've re- I've exposed myself to criticism.

So there is kind of that sense, but I just looked at it like, I got a review once from a literary magazine that it was the worst review an author can get, and it said, essentially, um, "Jon Acuff's really passionate. That comes through. But ultimately this is a pamphlet padded out to..." Or yeah, "It's a pamphlet padded out to a full-length book."

And like every author is terrified of that. Like- Yeah ... and they said it, and but like, and it hurt, and I processed it, but then I was like, that book sold 200,000 copies. I would never trade that. No. If somebody said to me, "Hey, [00:30:00] you're gonna have a book that helps 200,000 people, and you're gonna get to talk about it, um, but somebody is going to say a mean sentence online in a literary magazine.

So which one do you want?" I would never go- ... "I don't want that." I'd be like, "That sounds terrible." And so- I'm 

Scott Allen: gonna take that one, Jim. Yeah. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. You know what? I'll sleep better knowing that. And I just think that that's part of it. But you also have to get to a spot where you can see that. Yeah. You can rationally kinda go, "Oh..."

Um, and for me, I'm, I'm still learning that. Like, I'm still in the trenches of that. Like, there's this- Yeah ... where that shows up for me is the fear of the invisible they. Like, if I say this, they'll be mad. Like, if I say... 'Cause on the internet, like, I did this, I wrote this post, um, kind of about like, I believe you can change your life.

I believe, like, you can do both. Like, it was very, like, positive. It was not ver- It didn't attack. And there was a lot of comments that were like, "Well, I [00:31:00] couldn't do that, and I couldn't..." And you know, like very like, "Well, what do you say to somebody who's chronically ill?" As if I had been like, "And even chronically ill people.

Let me be real clear. I don't care that you're chronically ill. I'm actually saying this about you." But so, like, the internet reads everything through the lens of me, and so they are gonna criticize you and go like, "Well, you didn't consider my life." I'm like, "I didn't know your life." Yeah. "I've never been to that state."

Like, "You live in North Dakota? I don't know." Like, I wasn't this... But we have this tendency as humans to take it personally. So you are gonna be criticized. Like, that's part, like, that's part, you know, you leaving what you were doing, I'm sure there was criticism, where people were like- You just got to the thing.

The whole goal is the thing, and now you're gonna do what? Yeah. Like- 

Scott Allen: Yeah ...

Jon Acuff: and there are questions, and like how did you process that? 

Scott Allen: Well, I'm t- you... As you were speaking, I was thinking of a story of, I just had a guest on, Mark Shapiro, and he's the CEO and president of the Toronto Blue Jays. [00:32:00] And so, uh, his statement was something like, "Well, you know, being in a role where everybody has an opinion for you," right?

Mm-hmm. Like, literally the whole community, you just, you, you have to, you have to build that muscle of navigating that space. And what do I listen to? What do I pay attention to? What's the signal? What's the noise? Mm. And I mean, there's, there's potential value in that person's perspective. At least you now- Oh

have an awareness of it. But w- a- and, I should say, and is this something that I'm gonna hold onto? And I think for me, what's super helpful in that space are just thinking partners. Like my wife, I care about her perspective. Yep. My therapist- Yeah ... I care about his perspective. My mentor that I speak with every few weeks, I care about his kind of perspective on it.

So who are those people that can help me discern, like, okay, what should I be listening to or not? What deserves- Mm ... my attention? And that's- Yeah, 

Jon Acuff: you know ... 

Scott Allen: but I get it. That goes back to success. This one's a big one for me. This one's a big one for me. Yeah. That I'm actively pushing through as [00:33:00] someone who's built a business, and I'm working to build a speaking business and consulting business.

Yeah. You gotta put yourself out there, and that's- 

Jon Acuff: Well, and that's part of... So we, we started these things called Stage and Page, where it's the two-day intensive event- Yeah ... for 20 people, um, and it's speakers and writers, and that's one of the things we talk about, where, okay, and it comes back to y- to your definition of success.

So if your goal as the president or the CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays is everybody is happy in Toronto, you're gonna have the worst job ever because it's, it's impossible. Like, you're not... There's always gonna be, like, "You should trade so and so. I can't believe you brought so and so back. I can't believe you have him hitting in the four spot," whatever.

But if, if your goal is, okay, we win the right games, we spend the right money, we in- give back to the community, whatever. It'll... Like for you, um, I check in with my wife, I check in with my therapist, I check in with my mentor, like- Yeah ... and they kinda go, "Oh, yeah, [00:34:00] you're still on." The flip side I would add to that for social media just in our world is- Not saying things to generate hateful response just to generate- Oh

attention. Yeah. That's a... There's a lot of people that fall into that trap where they get something that goes viral with a lot of hate, and they go, "Oh, what if I put my foot down?" And like, now this is an issue, and like they say something knowingly it's wrong to generate. And I'm just like, ugh, that's the kinda stuff where I'm like, that's the kinda criticism, I don't wanna court it.

Um, but when it happens naturally, have I done the best job with the piece of content, the speech, whatever, that I could do? 

Scott Allen: Yep. Yep, 100%. 100%. Okay, I think you're gonna take us home here. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. So the last one is a biggie. Um, it's that people don't choose re- uh, remarkable because they haven't questioned what I call their acceptable success line.

Um, and their acceptable success line is kind of their definition of what's an [00:35:00] acceptable level of success, and it's usually built off a few things. It can be like your parents' belief, the average salary of your closest friends, the town you grew up in, um, you know, our education. I'll give you an example from my own life.

A buddy of mine that I grew up with- texted me about, like, some flights that I, I'd been bouncing all over Dallas trying to get home. I got, Dallas in February will trap me in an ice storm. Right. Like, it's, we, I, I know it, Dallas knows it, it's happening. 

Scott Allen: DFW is a, it's a, it's a, I don't know, a portal to something not good.

Jon Acuff: Dude, I, few places on the planet make me question every life decision so quickly. Like, I, like, when I get in that building I'm like, "What am I even doing?" "Why, all my decisions have been wrong. Whatever's brought me here," you know? So a buddy of mine texted me from the town, I grew up in a very blue collar town in Massachusetts, great town, Hudson, Massachusetts.

It's fancy now, but when I was, like... On Main Street we had a biker [00:36:00] bar, and they sponsored our little league team. Nice. Billy Jack's Biker Bar sponsored our little league team. Nice. Now it's like Main Street of the US and it's beautiful. But a buddy of mine, I said, "Hey man." He texted me, he was like, "Congrats on making all those flights in Dallas."

And I said, "Well, I didn't make 'em. Like, my assistant booked all that. Like, kudos to her, she was a, like she was moving and, like..." And he goes, "Oh, assistant. Does she get you coffee too, kid? What are you doing?" Like, that was beyond- Yeah ... his acceptable success line. 

Scott Allen: Yeah, 

Jon Acuff: yeah. Like, and I was like, "Oh, okay." Who 

Scott Allen: have you become, huh?

You're a big guy now, 

Jon Acuff: huh? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my assistant. What, does she brush your teeth? Like, and then, like, the people I know that I'm emulating are all, like, they all have some EA help, or they all have an ex- Like, and it's not like they're shining your shoes, like... Yeah. And so that for me was like, oh, I just bumped into that.

And you see that, it's easy to see that with money, where, like, somebody, if you say, like, "So and so made this amount of money," and somebody goes, "What would you even do with all of that? What would you..." And, like, that, now you've [00:37:00] bumped into it versus, like, "Oh, good for them. Like, they work really hard. Like, man, they're-" Yep.

"Oh, good for them," versus, "What would you even do with that?" So that's part of that relational thing is, like, h- you know, and the curio- the internal curiosity of, oh... Like Dana Carvey the comedian, I heard him once say he was in therapy, therapy because he could buy his nephew a $3,000 guitar but not himself.

Hmm. And he was like, "Oh, I need to go explore that." 'Cause he apparently, in his heart, acceptable success was you don't get to own a $3,000 gu- you can give one, other people can be blessed with that, but not, not you. And it's like, oh. Wow. That's, I need to, I need to kinda work on that a little bit. And so the acceptable success line is fascinating to me.

Scott Allen: Hmm. Well, okay, listeners. Seven reasons people don't choose remarkable. 

Jon Acuff: Well, no, before we, before we leave- 

Scott Allen: Yeah, 

Jon Acuff: yeah ... have you, like, where's an example of you raising your acceptable success line? 'Cause I'm sure you have, in healthy ways 

Scott Allen: Where, where someone [00:38:00] has, has in, has kind of like tried to keep me in place, you mean?

Or where I have- 

Jon Acuff: No, I think I have a, I have a 

Scott Allen: Guess. Oh, I have an example 

Jon Acuff: I have a guess. To leave being a professor, which has a certain level of economic whatever, and to do what you're doing now has a different economic- Yes ... kind of runway. I guarantee you had to give yourself some permission to kinda change that.

Tell me if I'm wrong or right. 

Scott Allen: No. No, 100%. 100%, yeah. And, you know, I, I kind of built a wooden bridge out. It wasn't a steel bridge. It wasn't a rope bridge, right? Mm-hmm. But it, I knew that if I followed my curiosity and where my energy was that, that the, the money would come, and- Mm-hmm ... and thankfully it, it has.

Um- Mm-hmm ... because if I, if I love what I do, that's gonna show up with my clients, and, and that's- Yeah ... it's gonna translate, and it, and it does because I'm passionate about what I do. But- Yeah, I mean, I think that's a, it's, [00:39:00] it's such an interesting thing that we at least... I love the fact that Dana Carvey was self-aware enough to say- Mm-hmm

"Huh, why is this the soundtrack?" To use- Yeah ... your language, right? 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. 

Scott Allen: Why, why does this, why am I in the grip of that re- And, and again, it might be something that's true, but it might be something that we could push back on as well, right? 

Jon Acuff: For you, what's something you've had to give yourself permission to do?

Like, maybe it is a family trip around the world, or to purchase, or spend time on that maybe doesn't have an immediate like, "Oh, why did you..." Like, "Why did you go chase that curiosity?" It doesn't, it's not, you can't monetize it. Like, where's an example you've had to give yourself permission to do something like that?

Scott Allen: So I, I just ordered a Lexus. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. That's what I... Yeah, yeah. 

Scott Allen: I've, I've never owned a new car. Yeah. I'm driving an old car. I pay off cars right away. I'm actually, you know, I, I, I'm buying it. I'm not... So I have all- Yeah ... kinds of things and rules, and have never owned a new car. It's always been- Yeah ... a used car that was five or six years old.

And so- Mm-hmm ... it came to this [00:40:00] decision, and I had to talk to my wife. I had to talk to... I mean, it was- Yeah ... but again, it was one of those things where like, you know, I, I, I work really, really hard, and is it, is it a crime for me to quote, unquote, "reward myself" in that way with a brand that I absolutely love and have great passion for?

Yeah. We just like- Right? We- When we do- We've both been 

Jon Acuff: there ... the work we do- 

Scott Allen: Yes ... 

Jon Acuff: you sit there and you're like, "I'm an idiot if I don't own one of these." Yes, yes. Like, I, you wanna run out the room and buy one and me, I, yeah, I get it. 

Scott Allen: Yes. Well, we sat in that room together and- Yeah ... and listened to the- Yeah

founders and- 

Jon Acuff: Oh my gosh ... 

Scott Allen: so, yeah, I, I, I wanna be a part of that, and I want to experience that. And so, so that was, that was a, an example for me, for sure. That sounds- No, totally ... and, and to your point about how others are gonna experience the conversation, there might be some listeners that are like, "Oh," you know?

Jon Acuff: Yeah. "

Scott Allen: Oh, he's buying- It's so true ... himself a Lexus, Mr. Big Pants," you know? 

Jon Acuff: Um- Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it's so funny when you bump into somebody else's about, like, where, like, what they think and why they think it. And I'm fine if it's a [00:41:00] deliberate, if, like, the, if it's deliberately drawn. Yeah. Meaning, like, I have a neighbor and he loves how many miles he's put on a, a Camry.

Like, he loves it. Like, that's, that's a passion for him. Like- Yeah ... he's got over 300,000 miles. That's not, he's not doing that 'cause he's like, "I only deserve this." He's like, "Oh, this is fun to me." Yeah. Like, "I'm gonna try this." Like, it's almost a hobby at this point. Yeah. So I, I'm fine when it's something that's deliberate and healthy and intentional.

It's not great when you picked it up along the way and just believe that's... You know, and where I coach, like, speakers where I see them have a, they have a hard time with is as they raise their fee. 

Scott Allen: Mm. 

Jon Acuff: Like, so the last lesson of the day is climbing the fee ladder. Yeah. Like, how do you raise your fee? Yeah.

And it's okay, 'cause you get to these moments where it's like- Oh, you think your time is worth that? Or like, oh- Yes ... you think, you know. And, and you have to have other people in the room that are like, "Oh, [00:42:00] yeah. That dude, let's go." Like, I, you know, like I know people that get $50,000 for a 45-minute keynote.

Yeah. Like, that is awesome. Like- Yeah ... but if you don't know that exists and you try to go from zero to five to 7,500 to 10 to 12, there's all these little, like, acceptable success lines you have to break through. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, uh, that, fees, that's definitely a, a place that gets my attention quickly, right?

And- Oh, 

Jon Acuff: yeah. Yeah ... 

Scott Allen: constantly bumping up against that for sure. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. 

Scott Allen: Well, okay, so- I'm ending off the podcast these days by just saying, you know, what's the practical wisdom in this conversation we've just had? What do you think, John? 

Jon Acuff: Well, I mean, the practical wisdom is you get to be remarkable. Like, it's not for special other people.

Um, I, you know, the... I love telling people that listen to podcasts like this, like, "You're a high performer." And they always go, "Well, no, I'm not, 'cause it's other people who are high performers, not me." But if you're listening to this podcast, [00:43:00] you're already a high performer, because low performers never go to this category.

They don't know this category of podcast. They certainly aren't like, "Hey, I need to better myself with a conversation." They're like... So congratulations, you're already a high performer. You're already on the road to remarkable. Um, and then a really practical kind of you could actually do this are, I would just spend 15 minutes a day for seven days in a row on one of the things you're curious about.

We use that word curious a lot. Um, I like to audition goals. I don't, um... I think most resolutions fail, New Year's resolutions fail, 'cause we try to do something for a year we've never done for a day. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jon Acuff: And that's like- Absolutely ... marrying somebody you just met at speed dating. So what if you just said, "I'm curious about blank, and I'm gonna dedicate 15 minutes of time to it seven days in a row.

And then if it goes well, I'm gonna double down. Maybe I'll add 20. Maybe I'll add five more," whatever. If you do that consistently, man, you're, you're amazed at where you end up. 

Scott Allen: I love that phrasing. Auditioning goals, that's awesome. Yeah. [00:44:00] Okay, sir. Uh, you know, for listeners, there's links in the show notes to John's books.

They're awesome. I would suggest listening to them, 'cause he's hilarious, and it's- Oh, I appreciate 

Jon Acuff: that ... 

Scott Allen: whether it's, you know, driving a sewing machine across Texas or wherever that was, you know, like with a rental car. That was across Texas. Yeah, it was a, a, uh... It was a 

Jon Acuff: Yaris. Yes. It was a Yaris. Yeah. I remember it had a roll-down window.

I don't think I put that in there. It was like, I went... At Hertz, I went to press the button to get the window down. No. No button. No. I was like, "What?" It was a roll-down. I was like, "Are we still making these?" Yeah. That was... That's funny. And I, I... Dude, I had to do that the other day. I drove from Oklahoma City to San Antonio- I saw that

'cause a flight got canceled. 

Scott Allen: Yeah, I saw that 

Jon Acuff: on 

Scott Allen: LinkedIn. And 

Jon Acuff: Scott, I don't know- ... if there's a part of I-35 that's not under construction right now, like... Yeah. 

Scott Allen: Oh. 

Jon Acuff: It is bonkers, dude. It... I got... And I somehow got in commuting traffic in Oklahoma City, in Dallas, in Austin, in San... Like, it was a rolling caravan of [00:45:00] me and a bunch of other people.

So I, I spend a lot of time in your glorious state. Well, we could, 

Scott Allen: we could, uh, not sit in a coffee shop, but go on a walk, and we could talk about a lot of, uh, war stories. And so, actually, a soundtrack. Your, your work impacted me in this way, so the... we'll just close out with this. But I was, uh... As you know- An airport or travel is a, a wonderful opportunity to practice emotional intelligence.

Yeah. I mean, it just is. Like- So now literally when, and it's not if, it's when things go wrong, and I have a- Mm-hmm ... fascinating list of things that can go wrong on airplanes- Mm-hmm ... as you do in, in travel. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. 

Scott Allen: Deep breath, physiological sigh, and- Mm-hmm ... and the, the mantra or the soundtrack is, okay, you're, you're in session.

Practice emotional intelligence. That's good. This is your m- this is your masterclass. You're in it. You know, literally- That's good ... out, out of DFW this spring, um, two-hour flight turns into nine hours on the airplane. Just the whole [00:46:00] time I was in, like, the black belt. I- Oh ... kind of walked into the studio, the, where the black belts were training for that one.

Jon Acuff: Yeah, 

Scott Allen: like, 

Jon Acuff: I thought we were just gonna train for, like, 15 minutes. 

Scott Allen: No. Oh, no. This is nine hours. Seven-hour seminar. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. Bro, that's- 

Scott Allen: I, I, I so appreciate you ... dude, I love that. I so appreciate you, sir. That's so good. Yeah. Oh, well. 

Jon Acuff: Yeah. Well, hopefully I'll see you again another event. Okay. It was super fun to hang out.

Um, if you're in Nashville, the door's always open. Oh, cool. So would love to see you. Thank you, sir. And next time I'm in Dallas, I'll, uh, I'll reach out. 

Scott Allen: Awesome. Thank you, sir. Be well. 

Jon Acuff: Thanks. 

Scott Allen: Bye-bye.

Scott J. Allen: Thank you so much for listening to Practical Wisdom for Leaders, the official podcast of the International Leadership Association.

Be sure to leave a rating, share this episode with someone in your network, and visit the show notes for links, references, and additional resources. You can also subscribe to the Practical Wisdom for Leaders newsletter for more insights and resources. Link is in the show notes. I lead retreats for senior leadership teams, conduct engaging workshops, and deliver [00:47:00] inspiring keynotes for organizations across industries.

To learn more, visit www.scottjallen.net. Until next time, keep changing lives.