Say Yes, Be Kind, and Show Up with Jeff Fellows

Jeff Fellows is currently the Business Development Executive for the Naval Air Missiles portfolio at Raytheon, focused on meeting warfighter demands for lethal and survivable mission effectors. With a background in 5th-generation tactics, Jeff has also spearheaded growth strategy and tactical applications for next-generation technology within Raytheon's Advanced Technology Strategic Business Unit.

Retiring from active-duty naval service in January 2022, Jeff spent 20 years leading high-velocity organizations as an officer and combat aviator. An experienced carrier pilot with more than 3,300 flight hours and 660 arrested landings in F/A-18 E/F Super Hornets and F-35C Lightning II aircraft, his career highlights include being hand-picked to command the Navy's first operational F-35C Lightning II squadron, graduating TOPGUN (Class 02-09), serving as a TOPGUN instructor and later TOPGUN Training Officer, a peer-selected role leading the entire instructor cadre, and completing three combat tours across Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom.

A Couple of Quotes From This Episode

• “If I know something about you, or you know something about me, then it really just kicks off whatever we're gonna go do as our task, our mission, or our job.”
• “Say yes, be kind, and show up.”
• "Connection is the weapon of elite leaders.”

Resources

• Article: The Increasing Importance of a Best Friend at Work

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

• The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in studying, practicing, and teaching leadership. Attend The Global Conference in Toronto, October 28-31.

About  Scott J. Allen

• Website
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My Approach to Hosting

• The views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace your reflection, research, and exploration of the topic.

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Transcript

Dr. Scott J. Allen: [00:00:00] Thanks for checking in from wherever you are in the world. Welcome to Practical Wisdom for Leaders, the official podcast of the International Leadership Association. I'm your host, Scott J. Allen, and each week I invite executives and scholars to explore the real work of leadership. This podcast is part of a global community committed to helping leaders thrive.

If you find these conversations valuable, connect with me on LinkedIn, subscribe to the podcast, and share this episode with others. To learn more about me, visit www.scottjallen.net. 

Jeff Fellows: And now, here's today's episode 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Okay, everybody. Welcome to Practical Wisdom for Leaders. Thank you so much for checking in wherever you are in the world today.

I have Jeff Fellows. He has been on some adventures. You're gonna learn a little bit more about him in just a moment. I do wanna thank my sponsor. This is the official podcast of the International Leadership Association. So as always, thank you to the ILA. Thanks for checking in. [00:01:00] And Jeff, tell listeners about you.

I'm excited for people to meet you. 

Jeff Fellows: I appreciate that, Scott. I appreciate you having me. Uh, my name is Jeff Fellows. I-- Some of the adventures that Scott alluded to, I spent the majority of my younger, younger years as a naval aviator. Uh, I had the chance to fly F-18 Super Hornets, F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.

I attended, uh, Top Gun. I was a Top Gun instructor, and so I got to, I got to do some really fun things in the Navy that I really enjoyed. And now I, I live back in Dallas. I am the business development executive, um, here at Raytheon, so I, I oversee the naval air missiles portfolio, so still in the defense aerospace.

I'm in Dallas, Texas, and I've got three great kids. We've got them all home for the summer, and I'm really looking forward to having a really good conversation with you today, Scott. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Oh, well, thank you. Well, so we just graduated one yesterday . So- So congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. It was a, it was a [00:02:00] wonderful weekend filled with family, graduations, celebrations.

It was... But yes, he's now off to Ohio State in the fall, so we're, uh... Oof, man. It's 

Jeff Fellows: happening. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yes, exactly. Okay. So I was in a presentation that you gave about a month and a half ago, and you had this quote, which I just absolutely loved. So, "Connection is the weapon of elite leaders." Let's start there. Let's go with that.

What do you think? 

Jeff Fellows: I think a lot about that, and I remember-- I know the presentation you're talking about, and, you know, it, it's, it's really interesting. There's one thing to sit around the, the leadership campfire academically and break it down, and how do we, how do we exist in these, like, leadership ecosystems?

And as I was kind of getting ready for that presentation, I was thinking through, like, you know, who are, who are leaders that are, were in my life that were impactful? Um, my opportunity to be in leadership positions, like, what did I think went well? What I think didn't go, didn't go great. And then even more importantly now, as I'm in the corporate world and outside of the [00:03:00] military, what does that look like?

And, and I know for me, whenever I have felt emotionally connected to the teams that I am on or the, the squadrons that I, I was in, um, I, I just, I felt like it was way easier and way more impactful, and I had way more fun, and I had way more of, like, a close, really, like, intimate connection if I knew the people around me and if the people around me knew me.

And so I think, as I was thinking about as, like- If, if I have a, uh, if I'm a follower and my leader's, like, looking at me and like, "Hey, what..." And is looking at me as, "Hey, what can I do for them?" transactional, like that feels transactional to me. And my, my love language, like I wanna know... I wanna be able to do that, I wanna be a high performer, but I also wanna know, like, you know, what you're, like what you're into.

Do you like heavy metal music? Do you like country music? Do you have a big family, small family? [00:04:00] Um, do you like the Dallas Cowboys or do you hate them? You know, like, and even though those are small things, I, I know for me, um, those little things that can lead to, like, relationship intimacy make the work side of it really a lot more enjoyable.

And for me, it makes me feel a little safer, but more psychologically safe. Like, hey, if I know something about you or you know something about me, then it, it really just kind of kicks off whatever we're gonna go do as our task, our mission, or our job. Like, for me, it just has made that, like, way more enjoyable than just transactional.

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yeah. Well, and, and so it was so interesting because last week I was with an organization and one of the participants said, "You know, my annual performance review is five minutes." Mm-hmm. So five minutes. That's how much we value you. That's how much we're thinking about your future. That's how much we really, really want to engage you in a dialogue about your growth and development.

I mean, it was just absolutely fascinating. And so something I've been [00:05:00] seeing, I'm just really interested if you've been seeing this just among friends in organizational corporate life, but I, I think that relational side of the equation, I think we maybe are, are... the balance is a little bit off in organizational life right now, that we...

The... And, and the calendar tells the story. I come across leaders all the time who say, "Oh, I value my people. I really, really value relationships." But then you look at their calendar and, I don't know, do you, right? 

Jeff Fellows: Yeah, I think that's a point really well said and well taken. One thing I think for the way that we work here a- in, in Raytheon, um, I think it's a great thing with being, having a lot of flexibility with work.

Good. It's a lot of flexibility with where people live, where the workforce is centered, where, like, the center of gravity is. And depending on where that happens geographically, um- If tr-- if, if, if work is happening over Zoom like we're doing now, you know? [00:06:00] That it's just a different feeling than if we're in the same Starbucks, you know, having this over real coffee.

It's, uh, it's so trying to put some actual investment into the time, that face time together, that, like, sitting in the same room together, reading body language together. I think we've made it really convenient to, like, work through, uh, technology, and you can see it does have an effect. It really does have an effect.

And, um, and so I think how I see that now is leaders that I have that if they're in town or we're traveling together to create some, "Hey," like, while we're in the terminal or having lunch or having something, like, change the tune besides just work. Like, "Hey, what was travel like?" You know, "Where are you coming from?"

Like, those things always tend to help, but you're-- it's really easy to stack your calendar with meeting after meeting after meeting, and you're trying to get one or two minutes at the beginning or the end of like, "Hey, how is, how's everybody doing? Okay, let's, let's kick it off. We've got everybody here," and it gets short-changed.

Um, so yeah, I, I am seeing that, that, that [00:07:00] efficiency of work and getting tasks complete comes at the cost of, you know, really engaging, engaging your people. So, yeah, I think, I think we're seeing it all over. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yeah. And, uh, I mean, it's just, it has to be a priority and, and it's almost like one of those hidden task list items that- Mm-hmm

I don't think many leaders have on their to-do list today. Mm-hmm. "Hey, check in," or, "Build a relationship with Jim," or, um, "Do a quarterly luncheon with Paula." Whatever it is- Mm-hmm ... I don't know that at times it's even on the radar of certain individuals to make that a priority. I mean, if 70% of how I experience the organization is my direct supervisor, and we know, like your quote says, relationships are that heat-seeking missile.

I mean, there's no- Yes ... foolproof. There's no, nothing like silver bullet, so to speak, but, um, relationships are the best shot you got. 

Jeff Fellows: I, I agree. I-- and, you know, I think to your point, as I was thinking that, like when you're, when you're hard scheduling [00:08:00] quarterly touch points, quarterly, "Hey, um, let's have a team, a team meeting or a team lunch," like, you know, I think those seem re- those are really formal, and I think they can be actually really, really impactful.

Yeah. I, I, to me, like, it's those in-betweens is if you're in the same office and you've got, you, you know, you fist bump one of your employees, you know, every, every morning or whatever, it's like, "Hey, can I get you a cup of coffee?" Um, "Hey, you wanna, you wanna walk down and grab lunch? You, are you busy right now?"

Even if it's a no, um, those acknowledgments of just something that like, "Hey, w- I, we are connected." Yeah. "We have something that is one lev- that is a level or two deeper than we have the same work badge," um, god, just to me, those have always really resonated 'cause I know when I've been, been a follower, and I still am today- Sure

in many different ways, like- The folks that I looked up to or were mentors or were the leaders in those organizations, like when they showed that to me, I was like, "I feel like I [00:09:00] belong." It's like, "I'm on your team. I feel like you see me." Even if it is a, a fist bump or like a ribbing about the Cowboys or something, um, you know, a little bit selfless.

Like, it made me feel seen, it made me feel connected, and I, and I am one of those guys, I want to be on the team, I want to contribute. And so that was a really small way that, you know, I noticed that could help. And so I think when those little small acts of intimacy and like, "Hey, I want to establish a relationship with you," have really, really kind of helped, uh, helped build some strong bonds.

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yeah. Because I mean, I think sometimes when I'm in organizations and I talk about relationships, people kind of take that as, "Oh, you want me to be best friends with my team," or, "You want me to have them over for a barbecue every Friday night?" Something like this. No. I mean, you said it beautifully. Look, I know a couple levels.

"Hey, your son just graduated. How'd it go? How was family in town?" Mm-hmm. "How's soccer going? How was, how was, how was fishing this weekend?" Whatever it is. Mm-hmm. "How are the Cowboys doing?" Because, you know, I don't, I don't follow football. [00:10:00] But I mean, you know, and, and of course, the military does this really, really well.

They build teams. They build those relationships. Not only, and as you know, Gallup has that question, you know, I have a best friend at work, right? Mm-hmm. And, uh, you know, what could corporate America learn from the military, in your opinion? What do you think? How do you think about that? Because, uh, those relationships are just baked into the DNA- Mm-hmm

in that world, in that other world, as I as- as I understand it. 

Jeff Fellows: Right. I, and I think this is where Especially a- as you start to hear some of the voice tracks of guys who have served in the military for a short or a long time, and they come out and see what non-military work is like. I think the military, it's a whole lot easier than in corporate America because the military, regardless of service, you inherit a really noble mission.

Yeah. You're-- you are joining something that is way bigger than yourself. It has a lot of reverence. There's a [00:11:00] lot of respect for being in the military, and the idea that you would give your life for or your country, like, you join that mission, and it's really easy to form some really strong intimacy with the folks in your squadron- Yeah

on your ship, in your unit. Um, it's, it's, it is, it really is baked in. Yeah. So when there's a real consequence of loss of life, limb, or, you know, being away from your family, like, those types of sacrifices, like, you get close real quick. Yeah. Um, so I think wh- like, what could corporate America learn, learn from that?

Yeah. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yeah. 

Jeff Fellows: Um... 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Even the small things. I mean, what are some, uh, I mean, implementable just, "Hey, here's a, here's a couple nuggets- Mm-hmm ... of things that I experienced in the military that could easily transfer into corporate li- life if it was a priority, if we make it a priority, if we elevate it onto the task list- Mm-hmm

as something that we wanna do." Anything come to mind? 

Jeff Fellows: Yeah. I mean, [00:12:00] so this may sound really oversimplified, and it really... in, in some companies it might not work or seem trite. But I'll-- within the military, um, and you've probably seen these on cars driving down the road, like, you see all different kinds of stickers, badges that are associated with ev- s- even smaller groups within the Navy- Mm-hmm

or the Army or the Marine Corps. When people are associated with their first... For me, my first squadron was VFA-22. We were the Fighting Redcocks. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yeah. 

Jeff Fellows: And as soon as I got to that squadron, I had, I'd survived flight school, which was not easy. I had finally gotten to the place I had wanted to get to. Yeah.

And so what was the first thing that I did? I made sure I had the squadron patch on my jacket, as the biggest one I could find. I made sure I had the sticker on the back window of my car, so everybody knew that I was in VFA-22, that I wasn't a student anymore. Uh, I made sure I had all the right squadron swag.

[00:13:00] And, and I, and I was... You know, as I think back through that, like, that was a cultural thing. Yes. That no matter what unit you went to, you always, "All right, I gotta rep my squadron. I got patches, stickers." And it just became a part of your vernacular and it kind of became a part of your identity. And so even something as small as- Yeah

hey, within Raytheon, I'm in this, the, uh, Naval Air Missiles, we're called a strategic sub-business unit. Yeah. What could I put on? What could I wear that identifies me as part of the Naval Air Missiles? Like, hey, we wear, you know, we wear cowboy boots, as a bad example. Or we- Yeah ... we have, you know, navy blue lanyards, or on Fri- we have something that we identify that...

And it being such a big company, like, there are people that I'm sure I walk by in a passageway that we're probably tangentially working on the same thing, but we don't even know it. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yeah. 

Jeff Fellows: You know? And so that small chance to acknowledge, like, "Hey, we're in the same group, I got the same lanyard, [00:14:00] we are in some way connected.

I don't know you yet, but I know kind of what you're doing. I know something about you." So that small identity piece of, like, we belong to the same mission is a- Yeah ... is, again, it might be something that small that people can get on board with. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yeah. Oh, I think that's a, I think it's a beautiful example, but that requires a little bit of design.

It requires some forethought. It requires someone intentionally stepping back and saying, "Okay, how do we design culture here?" Mm-hmm. "What is our culture gonna be? How are we going to... What are some symbols or some external ways that we communicate culture?" But, I mean, that's a beautiful example. Mm-hmm. Do any others come to mind?

I mean, I think in the military, what is it, challenge coins? I mean, that's another- Yes ... that's another kind of just indicator of, hey, as I understand it, what would you tell the listeners, not me? 

Jeff Fellows: Yeah. So that's a, that's a really great example. These are small, um, challenge coins that are about the size of a, of a half dollar.

Yeah. And it's ways that you can Without going into history lesson, like [00:15:00] if you and I are in a bar somewhere, you have your challenge coin, and let's say that I don't have mine on my person and you bring yours out, now I have to buy you a beer. You know? So with, like, in the, in the spirit of camaraderie, like, you know, like we're gonna share a beer over something that is, is common to our unit.

Um- Mm-hmm ... and it's also something you can give out as a, as a show of gratitude. "Hey, man, I appreciate you going above and beyond. Here's one of our challenge coins." Um- Yeah ... so those, those little ways of, like, acknowledging togetherness, acknowledging, like, "Hey, not only are you on this team," I think the punchline is, "I'm so happy you're on this team.

I'm so happy-" Yes ... "you're on my team." Yes. "I'm so happy we are on the same team." And so any t- any, any ways that we can do that, I, I, I feel like I, I, I've loved leaning into those in the military. I love when I see Raytheon or, or my business leaders, like, doing the same thing. And it, to create some really even healthy [00:16:00] competition with the other businesses.

Like, I was like, "Dude, we're, we, we're here, and we're the best. We're, we're gonna hit all of our financial targets and we're gonna have a great time doing it, and we are the best." Not saying you're not, but I love building that, like, yeah, you wanna be on this team. This is where it's happening. This is where the vibes are.

This is where it's going down. Like, and I think you really start to create that undercurrent with things like that and those personal touches and, you know, it, those, and those... A- and I think they work. I know they work for me. They still work for me. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, okay, so i- it's fun. We, so we've got the one-on-one time that I might spend with an individual, more than five minutes, uh, listeners.

Yeah. We, we want more than five minutes. 

Jeff Fellows: Yeah. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: But there's, there's an intentional design of I'm gonna try and build a relationship with this individual. There's also this culture where we're starting to think about, how do we recognize people? How do we represent ourselves? How do we build pride in what it is that we do?

Mm-hmm. And again, back to this [00:17:00] connection is the weapon of elite leaders, what are other ways of connecting that come to mind for you? What do you think? How do you think about that? 

Jeff Fellows: Uh, one way that I think about it is, and why I think the military has such an advantage here, is you're gonna get plenty of opportunities to show up for your team.

And, and I think even more in corporate, like how can you do that? You know, it's, it's one thing to hand out challenge coins and lanyards to create an identity. It's another thing when you see your business leaders show up for you. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Mm. 

Jeff Fellows: And I mean, it's one thing to show up when you're gonna hand out an award.

It's another thing to show up when it's bad news. It's another thing to show up where, you know, it's gonna maybe a reduction in force or there's gonna be an org change, or things are just not n- it's not good news. And so as a leader to be willing to show up with some humility, with some empathy, and, and deliver those messages and lead people through that, and also show some, some of the like [00:18:00]vulnerability of like, "Look, there's some unknowns here.

I don't have all the answers." But that willingness to show up, especially when it's painful, um, I think are ways that you can kind of build on, okay, I have an identity, but now how do I start to believe and trust my leaders? Like, hey, they're there in good, bad, and they're calm, they're measured, and they're human.

Yes. I think that those are things that as a, as both military and, and here at Raytheon, I, I've noticed like, believe me, like when you get to promote somebody or share good news, like those are days, those are memories, really core memories that I, well, I will keep. And core memories I still have and still look forward to making here.

And it's the, it's thinking back on... I'll give you an example. We were, I was at VFA-22, and we were going to depart on an unscheduled deployment. My wife was pregnant, and there was kind of a rumor swirling around, and I was like, "There's no way they're gonna send us back out. We [00:19:00] just got home from deployment.

No way." I was like, I was, I was inexperienced, I was like, "There's no way the Navy can do this." I remember, like around Christmas, I got a call from our executive officer, and the first question he asked, like, "Hey, when, when is Courtney due?" Courtney's my wife. "When is she due?" And I was like, "Oh, God." It's like- Uh-oh.

And we did. We went on, we went on another unscheduled deployment, and the, the first things that our squadron commander and executive officer started taking care of were things like that. They knew my wife was pregnant. Yeah. They knew that, hey, well, what if, in case she delivers, we will have a plan to either hopefully fly you home early if we can afford to let you go.

If we can't, we'll, we'll cross that bridge when we come there, and when we get there. And, and they went down the line with other folks in the squadron saying like, "What, what life impact is this gonna have on you?" When really, like, they probably could've been just as justified with the military. Like, "These are orders.

We're going. I expect to see you- Yeah ... at the squadron ready to go." It's [00:20:00] like, so that, like, them showing up for our squadron that way when it-- That was tough news. It's, you know, I, I, I appreciated the, the level of care and feeding they took a- they took looking after a young aviator at that point. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Well, I think that's, I think it's brilliant because it, it really, really highlights...

I mean, I think you used the words measured. I think you used, I, I think you used the word, uh, grounded. Mm-hmm. And i- is the individual measured, grounded, clear in good times and in challenging times? Mm-hmm. And are they showing up in challenging times? I think you may have also used the word just, like vulnerability and human.

Mm-hmm. Are you showing up and are you there for your people? Because if you are, well, that, that, in that unideal experience, actually you might be at getting a lot of credits. You might be making a lot of points in the hearts and the minds of others because you are showing up and you are having the difficult conversation.

Mm. We all know what it feels like to work for the individual who isn't willing to do that. Mm-hmm. Has others have the hard conversation [00:21:00] for them, and you just lose a lot of, a lot of credibility, 

Jeff Fellows: right? It's, yeah. That's, yeah, I, I appreciate that. That's really well said, and I-- Sometimes this stuff is, you know, sometimes it comes easier than, than others, and I, I...

Another example that's running through my head right now is like in, when, when I was a commanding officer of a squadron, we had a beloved member of our, of our unit take his own life. And without too many details, like, you know, that's one where very, like, emotionally, like how are you going to show up for yourself, the squadron of 247 people?

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Wow. 

Jeff Fellows: And how are you gonna show up for that service member's par- like, parents? And I ha- I... This, this all happened obviously very out of the blue, sudden, with not a lot of time, time to think about it. And one of those examples that is really, really clear, I remember one thing that the Navy does is they have a very, like, scripted s- this is step one [00:22:00] in a c- in case of emergency like this.

So step two, step three. It's very prescriptive to kinda take as much of that emotionality out of it. Yeah. And just kinda ha- what do we s- what do we need to do? Like, and one thing that I notice as we're executing, like, this checklist, and I mean, you could... The, the emotion is just overwhelming. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Hm. 

Jeff Fellows: And, um, one thing that's, that is obv- that is really absent in that checklist was h- notifying the parents of- Wow

the service member. Wow. Yeah. Uh, there's, there's official Navy notification through qualified casualty assistance officers and chaplains. Like, they get notified, but there really wasn't a clear delineation that says, "The commanding officer of this squadron shall talk to the mom and dad." Uh, and, uh, so they got to us, like, we have, like, we have to talk to the parents.

Yeah. As, I was like, "We've gotta talk to the..." I mean, that's clear. And so I was like, "How, how are you gonna show up here?" Yeah. And, and I wasn't making choices of, like, okay, this is how [00:23:00]I'm gonna show up. Like, I'm do the best I can. And I remember my executive officer, who I'll rename Nameless, but it's one of my dear friends, he's like- It was just he and I in the room.

I was like, "I'm gonna call his parents." And he's like, "Do you want me to stay in here?" I was like, "No. You, I'll, I'm, I'm gonna call him." He's like, "Okay. I'll be next door if you need me." And, um, and so I, I remember picking up the phone, calling them on a, on a landline, and, um, and I, I, I re- the conversation, they were...

They exhi- exhibited so much grace. They exhibited- Wow ... so much kindness. And, and, and I tried to do the same. You know, I was like, I'm not, I don't have a script I'm reading from. I'm just, I just, "Hey, I..." You know. They had already been notified by official Navy channels. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Okay. 

Jeff Fellows: So they knew what had happened. It w- this wasn't the first they had heard of it.

But now, like, they were getting a level of intimacy. I knew their son really well. I had spent a lot of time with him. He had talked about our squadron a lot. They, and, uh, and [00:24:00] so showing up for that family in that moment wasn't a calculated... I didn't know how to do it. I was like, "I'm just gonna be a- as, I'm, as kind as I can.

I'm gonna answer any questions you can. And then, hey, I'd let them know we are here to support you, and I mean that in whatever way." Yeah. And, and we did. We, we did a lot for that family. And, and they did a lot for us. I mean, I think what we gave to them in support, they mirrored that back to us in, in grace and acceptance and vulnerability and hum- humility.

What a beautiful family. And, and I'd say to this day, we don't keep in touch as often as we, as we were, but we still do. And- Mm ... um, you know, of a tr- of a tragedy that I, I can't begin to comprehend for them and what that felt like as a, as a, as a squadron, like, um, that was an example, like, showing up when it didn't, when there was no script and you didn't know how to do it.

You're just like, "I'm gonna be as human and as kind as I can." It ended up with a really beautiful relationship on the, on the backside of that and, and just appreciating, I think- Yeah ... a [00:25:00]family appreciating that aspect rather than, "Hey, let me use this as a, as a blunt force object and just try to get off the phone as quick as I can."

That was really impactful. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Wait, incredible story and powerful story, and, and another great example of- Yeah ... okay, how do we connect? How, how do we as human beings provide an environment, create- Yeah ... a culture where those connections are happening? I mean- Yeah ... even, even in this conversation, I'm also thinking about, you know, there's that individual that you've worked for somewhere along the way, not at Raytheon- Mm

or in the Navy, n- none of those organizations, but another one where, you know, you work all weekend and you, you hit send on Sunday because you spent the weekend working. And the person can't just write back and say, "Hey, you know what? I can always count on you. Thank you." Yes. Right? I mean, so I, I think what's so important and so really just real for me in this conversation, it literally costs nothing sometimes except for maybe five to 10 seconds [00:26:00] to a 20-minute phone call that's very, very difficult to do.

Sitting with someone for a lunch and really- Yeah ... just connecting with them as a human being. I think in so many ways, other than time, this connectivity, it's free. Mm. And what we get back, not only in having a meaningful relationship with another human being, and again, these aren't necessarily your best friends, so to speak.

Mm-hmm. But you know them, you care about them. You want them to be successful, and people can feel that when- Totally ... that's the case, right? 

Jeff Fellows: 100%. And I think for me, when you have that, that being your foundation around your work or whatever you're doing, like it makes the execution of what you're gonna do- 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yes

Jeff Fellows: so much more enjoyable. Yes. You know? It's like to know like this person knows something about me, and- Yeah ... I'm, I... If you know something about me, I know something about you. Let's go conquer whatever we're gonna go do. And I, uh, God, it's r- it's just, it's so powerful. And the other thing I was thinking about, you know, that email of, "Hey, [00:27:00] I appreciate you working over the weekend on this."

You know, I, I saw the date that you sent it. I saw the time. And then, you know, objectively like looking through what somebody did, reading it and like, "Hey, I thought your take on our financial forecast, I agree with that." Yeah. "That, that, I think that's a great point." Send. Um, or, "Hey, if you don't agree with it, hey, let- let's talk next week.

I, I think I have some ideas." Yeah. Um, there's some re- there's, there's really, really ways that, to acknowledge what people are doing for you, and it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be giant. And it... But they, you're right, it goes a really long way. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: It does. And so here's an example, and for listeners, this might sound, uh, lame.

And so I understand that this sounds lame on some levels, but my wife is incredible at just naturally thinking for others. And my mother-in-law is a human being who naturally thinks about others. So that is in her just DNA. Yeah. And it was beautiful, Jeff, the other night My daughters came home and one of them [00:28:00] said, "Hey, I need to make some cookies."

And my wife said, "Well, why?" And she said, "Well," and she said her friend's name. Uh, sh- you know, "Franny had a difficult day." And it's like, wow, her mind is coming home, it's thinking about others, it's gonna spend some time to bring a little joy to her world tomorrow. And so literally at the beginning of the year, I started a daily task, and this is, this is really my attempt at literally changing my brain.

The neural pathways. Mm-hmm. Can I just... It said, my, my daily task says, "One act of kindness, one act of gratitude." Mm-hmm. And that's, that's all it is. And, and that task can take a minute, it can take five minutes a day, but maybe it's something a little bit bigger if I need to say thank you to someone. But it's been my way of, again, connecting- Yeah

and trying to prioritize that connection. And, you know, it has been so much fun because it's my second task that I do every day. I have a first task and this is my second task. [00:29:00] And just putting something out in the world and a thank you for no apparent reason- Mm-hmm ... or a reminder to reach out to a friend who has cancer, it's, it's how I wanna be as a human, right?

Yeah, 

Jeff Fellows: man. Yeah. That's, that is beautiful. That's awesome. You know, I'm, as you're describing that You know, it's, it's auto- I'm automatic, like I, I agree. Wow, wow- Yeah ... like I resonate with that. Like what can I do? Like- Simple. Easy ... and it, you're, you're right, it doesn't... The matter of like time that it takes is minimal, and the size doesn't have to be big, but I think what's really important or like really resonates with me, it's like I know if somebody does that to me or for me- Yeah

I'm like, "Whoa." Like, "Wow." Yes. Like, "I can't believe like you thought about me," you know? Yeah. It's like... And so I think that's a really selfless way, and I agree, like that's stuff that I love putting, putting out there. And- Mm-hmm ... without looking for something back, it just, it feels really great to- Yeah ... to give like that.

You never know who's gonna need it. And honestly, I think whether or not we admit it, we kind of all need it, and when you get that affirmation that somebody is thinking [00:30:00] about you, I belong, I'm enough, like those things are... Yeah, yeah. I, I think that's really well said. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yeah. Like literally this morning... So a friend of mine, my, my longest friend, we became friends in first grade, he is who I saw...

Y- And you know I love music, and you know- Yeah ... I love first concerts. So my first concert was Van Halen, and, and it was 1986. And so- That's strong ... it was hilarious. Yeah, exactly. So he, he's coming in the fall. We're gonna go see the band Rush play. So he's coming to visit, so I just sent him a little text this morning, and it had...

I found the live recording of that show in St. Paul Civic Center in 1986, and just sent it to him. That... Simple, easy, quick little YouTube search. Mm-hmm. And he wrote back and he's like, "Whoa. That was awesome." And so again, right? Simple, easy, and if, if we just carve out that little bit of time, so much comes back, right?

Jeff Fellows: Yeah. That's... Yeah, I love that. You're... I, I don't have anything else to add on that, Scott. That is really... That's something I think it... taken in small [00:31:00] bites to try to execute in our own days. Yeah. Or just do, like execute such a- Yeah ... like formal, like just do some of that. That's... Yeah. I, I'm gonna steal that from you.

That's great. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yeah. I'm... So again, connection is the weapon of the elite leader. Mm-hmm. Are you prioritizing, set asi- setting aside time to connect? And I think what, what I've loved about this conversation is you've helped me think about connecting- Mm-hmm ... in a little bit of a different way. I think there's many ways we can be connecting.

It's not just one, but I think it requires a little bit of design. Mm-hmm. I think it requires some forethought, some intentionality to really think about how are we gonna connect as a community- Mm ... but then as individuals. 

Jeff Fellows: Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Hmm. Okay. So I always end these conversations, Jeff, with just a very quick question.

Yeah. What is the practical wisdom in the conversation we've just had? What do you think? What's the practical wisdom for listeners here? 

Jeff Fellows: This goes back to when you were sitting in this presentation, you asked me a question [00:32:00] of, like, what kind of systems I use or, or do I as I approach leadership. And to be transparent, I did not have an answer.

I just kind of- Hmm ... soft-shoed and tap-danced around the room like, "I don't know." Um, so I thought a lot about that. And, and I think it, it could be something applicable here, and without it being too many steps. Like, the way I think about it, especially when I look back at things that have gone well for me in my life, career, and, and growth, and things that haven't, um, I'd say say yes, be kind, and show up.

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Wow. 

Jeff Fellows: So the, the part, like the say- saying yes, if I know... Even if I know something's gonna make me uncomfortable, like say yes, give it a shot. Don't be afraid of it. What if it goes really well? Yes. Yeah. What if you're great at it, you know? Yep. Like, instead of thinking about all the things that could go wrong.

The kindness part of, like even if it is bad news, like you can always be kind. Yep. Even if you don't like that financial forecast. Like, "I hate your financial forecast. Let's talk on [00:33:00] Monday." It's like, "Hey, I got some different ideas. Let's take a look at it," you know? Yes. Um, and then the, the part about showing up.

I think those are, um, those are things that I have, have really worked in my favor. And as I try to boil them down of like how, how are you able to navigate and get to where you are and feel good about it and have some successes, like, you know, I would say, yeah, I've, I've said yes a lot. I, I'm, I try to be...

I'm a kind person, and I try to show up as much as I can. And, and, and the point I'll put on that, I had a re- I have a dear friend that, uh- Just started working at Raytheon and as he was starting, we were, we were on vacation together a- actually. And he was like, "What, what do you, what advice, what do you think I should do?"

And he's coming right out of the military, right into a new environment. And, uh, you know, and without making the correlation, I, I told him those things. I was like, I was like, I was like, "I think you should say, don't be afraid to say yes, be kind, and show up." Like- 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yeah ... 

Jeff Fellows: you know, if it, if you're, if a meeting's at 11:00, show up on time.

Show up with your stuff. Show up for [00:34:00] your team, and you're gonna be uncomfortable. So I think that is maybe some practical advice that, you know, applied differently a- across today, maybe something practical to help. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Yeah. And I would respectfully add a fourth: authentically connect. Um- 

Jeff Fellows: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Which you do well. Uh, sir, I am so thankful for you. Obviously, you have served your country. Uh, you are serving your family. I can't thank you enough for spending a little bit of time with me today and just highlighting your wa- your way of thinking about this topic. It's really, really helped me think about it in new ways, and for that, I'm thankful.

Jeff Fellows: Thank you, Scott. My pleasure. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Be well. 

Jeff Fellows: Bye. 

Dr. Scott J. Allen: Thank you so much for listening to Practical Wisdom for Leaders, the official podcast of the International Leadership Association. Be sure to leave a rating, share this episode with someone in your network, and visit the show notes for links, references, and additional resources.

You can also subscribe to the Practical Wisdom for Leaders newsletter for more insights and resources. Link is in the show notes. [00:35:00] I lead retreats for senior leadership teams, conduct engaging workshops, and deliver inspiring keynotes for organizations across industries. To learn more, visit www.scottjallen.net.

Until next time, keep changing lives.