Managing Your Energy with Jay Abbasi

Jay Abbasi is a global keynote speaker, TEDx speaker, coach, and former Tesla leader who helps professionals thrive under pressure without burning out. At Tesla, he led national training programs for over 1,000 employees, and has since coached leaders at Google, Amazon, TikTok, Wells Fargo, and many more. He’s been featured in Forbes Founder, Authority Magazine, and Medium, and is the host of the top-rated podcast Unstuck with Jay Abbasi. Blending corporate experience with deep expertise in mindfulness, resilience, and well-being, Jay offers a powerful message: success isn’t about avoiding challenges, but mastering them with clarity, energy, and purpose.

A Couple of Quotes From This Episode

• “When pressure increases, you need to recharge more, not less.” 
• “Resilience isn’t pushing through. It’s managing your energy so you can show up.” 

Resources Mentioned in This Episode 

• Jay's Website  
• Jay's Podcast - Unstuck with Jay Abbasi
• Jay's Speaking

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

• The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in studying, practicing, and teaching leadership. Attend The Global Conference in Toronto, October 28-31.

About  Scott J. Allen

• Website
• Weekly Newsletter: Practical Wisdom for Leaders

My Approach to Hosting

• The views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace your reflection, research, and exploration of the topic.

♻️ Please share with others and follow/subscribe to the podcast!
⭐️ Please leave a review on Apple, Spotify, or your platform of choice.
➡️ Follow me on LinkedIn for more on leadership, communication, and tech.
📜 Subscribe to my weekly newsletter featuring four hand-picked articles.
🌎 You can learn more about my work on my Website.

Transcript

Scott Allen: [00:00:00] Okay, everybody, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for checking in wherever you are in the world. Today I have Jay Abbasi and he is a international keynote speaker. He is a high performance coach. He is an expert in resilience, and we're gonna see where this conversation takes us. Very excited for this.

Conversation today. Jay is in New Jersey. I was just telling him I've had New Jersey on the mind. I've been listening to Bruce Springsteen's autobiography. Who knows if we'll go to Bruce Springsteen in leadership and resilience, but man, what a resilient guy that was. Holy buckets. 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely 

Scott Allen: Jay if you would go ahead and tell folks a little bit more about you and then we'll jump into the conversation.

Thank you for being here, sir. Yeah, 

Jay Abbasi: absolutely. Scott. Thank you for having me. And. I think for me, my work today is based off of some of the things I personally experienced within my corporate life. So I worked at a place where there was chaos and change and uncertainty and this was at Tesla years ago.

[00:01:00] I'm fortunate that I did a lot of work on myself. Before that to really figure out how can I be more adaptable, how I can manage through change, and how I can make sure I still connect to my own humanity while still performing at a high level. So where I saw a lot of my colleagues got really struggling, a lot of them burning out, affecting their personal life.

Outside of work I was doing really well. I was thriving. I got to a position where I was running national training programs, and that was work I loved. I was training, I was coaching, I was coming up with programs that was affecting over a thousand employees. And then when I left Tesla, I realized that's my mission.

That's what I'm here to do. Nice. Is to help leaders who are really in that position of high pressure, high demand, constant change. How do you take care of yourself, lead yourself so that you can effectively lead? Others, and that's the work that I do now on the form of the keynotes and the workshops and the coaching that I do.

Scott Allen: We are singing from the same hymnal, sir. I can't, my favorite quote, and listeners have [00:02:00] heard me say this a bazillion times, but my favorite quote is, who you are is how you lead. And so who are you? And a guy named Bob Hogan said. A version of that quote. But for me, if you're in a position of authority, who you are, matters a lot.

And are you grounded? Are you clear? Are you whole? Are you a person of character? What's your history, your personality, any number of different elements of, and so I'd love how you framed that up, that. If you are entering that chaos and entering that system in from a place of look I've done the work on self, I do the work on myself, and I can look at this situation with a clearer eyes a more grounded stance, a firm foundation.

You must have seen so many fascinating things, people trying to survive that. Like you said, chaos. 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah. And you also see it in, in the way in which other leaders show up. 

Scott Allen: Yes. 

Jay Abbasi: I can [00:03:00] remember when I was at Tesla, I was really fortunate, Scott, that I had some leaders that were incredible human beings.

Scott Allen: Nice. 

Jay Abbasi: And. It was how they showed up. It wasn't so much what they said. It wasn't so much of the strategies that they then implemented. It was what you saw in that leader's behavior. There was a recent research I read came out of Germany, one of the universities there in Germany, and it was how they recognized.

To see changes in behavior within professionals. The number one factor is when they see that behavior in their leader. 

Scott Allen: Yeah, 

Jay Abbasi: so it's more than any accountability measure. It's more than any type of carrot or stick approach. The thing that really changes behavior is when you see your leader do it.

Now, Scott, I've seen it the other way too. 

Scott Allen: Yeah, 

Jay Abbasi: I, I had a leader where I could tell you this person, read all the leadership books, had all the degrees, but when they showed up, I didn't see that character. I didn't see that integrity, and because of that it affected all of us. So I've had that contrast. [00:04:00] And so I do agree with you.

I think how we show up who you are, that's what's gonna make the difference in how you impact the people who look to you as a leader. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. My, my wife and I literally, I, I said to you before we started recording, we just got done with a walk and she works for a leader right now who is. Just grounded, firm, solid, and it's just a wonderful place to be because another one of my favorite quotes, and again listeners, I'm sorry, leaders create the weather.

And do you have an individual Do. That's a, it's a little tornadic, or is it hurricane like in this person's world? Or do you have an individual where, it's just always dark and stormy? Or that person who really struggled to be bring any level of optimism their head literally every day was 50 and rainy.

It was Seattle like every day in their, how you doing, Jim? Crappy. Okay, bud. We'll have a good one. And so I, I think. I, on the podcast, I've had a few different conversations [00:05:00] with some folks. They'll say things like, better human, better performance. And I think if we, I think ground zero of leader development is, are you doing that personal work and do you have a system that is helping you?

'cause I view this as these individuals are high endurance athletes. It is, it's a marathon and it's not easy. And if we're not entering from a place of having that system in place, I think we're behind the curve. And to your point, think of the impact then that it has on their families, that it has on their teams, their coworkers.

The ripple effect is incredible. 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah. And what I also wanna acknowledge is that those leaders that are the tornadoes, 

Scott Allen: yeah, 

Jay Abbasi: the hurricanes, oftentimes they don't. Know that they're doing it. Yeah. What I mean is people don't wake up Scott and say, I'm going to be a bad leader today, and I'm going to negatively [00:06:00] affect all the people of whom are looking to me as a leader.

No one wakes up thinking that, right? I wanna be a jerk, right? I'm gonna be a jerk. I'm gonna be mean, I'm gonna ruin everyone's life. Yeah, no. They don't think that, so I would say for anyone listening for our listeners here don't think of it like, okay, when I see that leader, I create resentment and frustration against them.

I would seek to understand them, seek to understand why they might be like that, and let that be a learning lesson. I would. I would say the most common reason why someone is like that is they lack the most important component of leadership and that self-awareness. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: They're just not self-aware. They just don't know.

They're not aware of the impact that they're having. It's not your job to fix someone else. However, it can actually be really valuable to look at someone, realize where they're falling short and. Train yourself to not fall into that pattern. 

Scott Allen: Yep. 

Jay Abbasi: Become more self-aware yourself. When you notice that someone else is lacking in that area, let it be fuel for that rather than fuel for resentment or [00:07:00] frustration or annoyance with another leader.

Scott Allen: Yeah. Yeah. And I think you're spot on. You're just spot on. And oftentimes it's that pressure and that constant pressure, especially at a place like Tesla. Some of their numbers were just released in the last I just read this morning some numbers released, and you know that, that pressure is ever present.

It's intense. It's a hard environment. It's not an easy environment. And again, put a human under those conditions for days, weeks, months, years, and. That's just a hard place to be. That's not an easy place to be. And I, so that self-awareness piece, I think you're spot on. And I, most humans, you probably, let's hope 95% don't want to be jerks.

Don't want to be assholes. 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah. 

Scott Allen: But put them under that pressure for and add time and interesting behaviors show up. 

Jay Abbasi: There's our natural reaction to [00:08:00] things that we have to learn how to retrain. So for example, a leader like you said, who's under a lot of pressure, lots of demand, they're most likely falling into one of these three buckets.

If they're not handling it well, they're either one, suppressing it. They're like, okay I'm up. I'm stressed. I'm, and they push it down and they push it down and then it comes out in negative ways. 

Scott Allen: Yeah, 

Jay Abbasi: right. All of a sudden, something that seems to be very trivial, they react to with anger, right?

Yep. So suppression doesn't work. The second category that we often see, Scott, is that people fall into fueling, which is they keep thinking about it over and over and over. They can't sleep at night 'cause they're thinking about it over and it never leaves them and they keep adding gasoline to the fire.

Obviously this doesn't work either. No, this is a second strategy effective. 

Scott Allen: No, 

Jay Abbasi: the third one, and this one's really common, and this is something I have had to work through personally. This is like where I need to constantly be mindful of is the person who will, yeah. Distract themselves. So for example, you're under pressure.

You're like, okay, let me get something to numb it. Yes. Whether that's your [00:09:00] cell phone, right? Doom, scroll, go to the kitchen, get a snack, or just something to just get away from it. Food, 

Scott Allen: gambling. Alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: Your drug of choice, right Scott? It's your drug of choice. And that's another method that doesn't work.

'cause you never address the challenge. The only strategy that works. Scott and I've worked with a lot of people, hundreds of leaders. The only strategy that works is to feel it. It's to acknowledge it. It's to be like, Hey, you know what? If this is hard right now, this is hard right now. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: If this is stressful right now, I can acknowledge that it's stressful right now.

This is hard. And if you can start there with acknowledging it and feeling whatever's coming up for you, you're now in a position to be resilient because you're addressing it. You're ha handling it directly, versus using these strategies that only create more and more of that stress and pressure.

Scott Allen: Exactly. Exactly. And then, having y I, a couple things. So is that an aura ring? Are you wearing an aura ring right now? On your right here? 

Jay Abbasi: No, it's a, it's 

Scott Allen: just one of those, it wedding ring. [00:10:00] Okay. 

Jay Abbasi: It's just my wedding ring. Oh, okay. What's it called? The material? I'm forgetting the name of it.

Yeah. It's a regular wedding 

Scott Allen: ring. Okay. Okay. So I have on a aura ring that I just purchased, and it's so interesting, Jay, I don't know if you've explored Whoop or Apple Watch or Aura Ring, but it'll tell you. Your level of stress, it'll gauge where you are from a sleep deprivation standpoint.

It will. It has fundamentally revolutionized me how I think about recovery, how I think about. Prioritizing time for recovery, myself, prioritizing sleep, because again, I know I have a very busy week coming up next week. So I'm also like right now, planning for that. I'm gonna be a little bit more careful this weekend.

I'm gonna give myself a little bit more space this weekend so that I move into next week a little bit more resilient. So having little tools like that to help us gauge that. But to your point, that awareness and. Being able to [00:11:00] admit I'm a pressure cooker. This is an intense period and. Admitting that, honoring that, and then having a coach like you that I can communicate with, that I can work with, that I can make sense of what's swirling around me.

Yeah. So incredibly important, right? 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah. 

Scott Allen: For some people it's a faith. For some people, it's a therapist, for some people it's a coach, whatever it is. Do you have that system in place that helps you be more resilient? 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah. 

Scott Allen: Versus. Again, the three glasses of wine and then now you don't sleep well, and then now you're entering the day depleted, and then now you're running the race depleted and then you do it again.

It's just, people driving themselves into the ground. 

Jay Abbasi: Scott? Yeah, there's a story I want to tell here that's very related to what you just said. It's just something that happened to me recently. So for years I had always a dream of. Being a TEDx speaker, I wanted to be on a TEDx stage. I just, I love the opportunity.

I always thought to share a message that's different Yeah. New to really make that kind of impact. And about a year ago. [00:12:00] I was invited onto the TEDx stage and I spent months preparing, rehearsing, and then September I went and did my TEDx talk. It went wonderfully, like the crowd was so engaged. It was, I got great feedback and then months went by and it hadn't been published, and I'm wondering, what's going on?

Why is this not published? And. Come to find out there was an issue with the recording. The audio wasn't captured at the venue. 

Scott Allen: Okay. 

Jay Abbasi: And because it wasn't captured, it wasn't gonna be published. And I had been telling people, Scott, for months, this is coming. I was so excited we were gonna be able to share this with the world at Scott.

Scott. Imagine, how devastating that is. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: And. What were my choices? Could I, should I just suppress it, push it down? Do I just go for my glass of wine or whatever and distract myself? Do I keep playing it in my head over and over again or do I just feel it? 

Scott Allen: Yeah, 

Jay Abbasi: and so [00:13:00] I, Scott, I'm telling you, this is exactly what I did.

I sat on the floor. This is exactly what a truth. Yeah. I sat on the ground and I just sat with the emotion. I just sat with. 

Scott Allen: Yeah, 

Jay Abbasi: I just sat because I needed to. I just was like, okay. Gave myself that hug that I needed to, because that was hard. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: As much of the work I've done on myself, 15 years of training myself to be resilient, something like this, of course it's gonna sting.

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: It doesn't mean I'm not human anymore. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: But Scott, what I would say, because I've learned how to acknowledge it the way I did and allow myself to feel whatever, came up and have some conversations with a few people, that was helpful and enlightening. That did not grip me for nearly as long as it would have.

I would say if it were 15 years ago and something like that happened, it would be devastating. I'd be not able to work for days or weeks. It would've affected me so much more. 

Scott Allen: Yep. 

Jay Abbasi: This, yeah, it affected me, but I was able to let go of it, adapt and move on, and not let it be something that created a real [00:14:00] devastating impact on me personally or on my business either.

Scott Allen: Yeah. Yeah. Having done that pre-work, entering that situation from a little bit of a different perspective and a different place, again, allowing yourself to feel it and feel the frustration turning to others. I think more leaders out there in the world. Need that grounding, need that perspective, need that center from which to begin to do the work.

Because I think oftentimes we throw people into these roles. They don't even know what they don't know. And similar to you, my mission is how do we better prepare these people to do this work? How do we better prepare leaders to be successful navigating as these high endurance athletes? Because again, I believe for many people right now.

What they're experiencing on Friday morning. It's not it's incredibly difficult. Their Friday is incredibly difficult, and to your point, most of them wanna do a good job. Most of them don't want to [00:15:00] be evil human beings. But we don't prepare the architect, we don't prepare the auto tech. We don't prepare these individuals.

To look at it through the lens that you just described, to have the resources they're gonna need to be successful, to be resilient. And so I know resilience is a passion of yours. How do you think a little bit about resilience. What are some other ways you approach that topic? Because I do believe leadership.

It requires resilience and, 

Jay Abbasi: absolutely. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah. I think the common misconception around resilience is that it means I keep going even when it's hard and I push through. 

Despite the difficulty. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: And I don't think of resilience that way. 

Scott Allen: Nice. 

Jay Abbasi: You just said it before Scott. You said, Hey, I have a tough week coming up and over this weekend I'm gonna prepare myself.

Scott Allen: Yes. 

Jay Abbasi: I'm gonna charge myself. Yeah. For what's coming this upcoming week. 

Scott Allen: Yep. 

Jay Abbasi: So here's an analogy I often [00:16:00] use. Every person listening, you have a cell phone with you, you have your cell phone with you. You never, it never leaves you. That thing is attached to you. You love it. To live without, it would be a wild way to live.

Now, so you have this cell phone. Okay. What happens? When you are using more of the applications on the cell phone. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: It you're using navigation, you have the YouTube on, you start filming something, the battery begins to drain. 

Scott Allen: Yep. 

Jay Abbasi: Of course it does. 

Scott Allen: Yep. 

Jay Abbasi: What does that require then? It requires you to charge it more than you maybe normally would.

Yeah. Maybe you charge it once a day, but if you really had to use your cell phone a lot that day, yeah. Hey, you gotta charge it a little sooner. You gotta plug it in. Yep. More to charge it. 

Scott Allen: Yep. 

Jay Abbasi: This is common sense to all of us, and we don't think of that for ourselves. No. At all. No. Here's what people say, Scott.

They say, when. The demand. It's crazy. I just don't have time. I just don't have time to work out. I just don't have time to really [00:17:00] reflect or meditate or do the things that I need to do to give myself the energy and the focus to perform at my very best when it's the complete opposite. Yeah.

When the demand increases, when the pressure increases, you need to make more. Time to charge yourself just like you would your cell phone and with this thing that you love so much, you charge it every day. Everybody charges it every single day. But what's more important, that little rectangle device that you put in your pocket or your purse, or your own health and your own wellbeing and your ability to lead others?

Scott Allen: Yep. Yep. A hundred percent. And I think of the cell phone as a wonderful analogy, I think of, again, to the high endurance athlete. They plan recovery. You don't just keep going. 

Jay Abbasi: Of course not. And even if you use the analogy of nature, right? 

Scott Allen: Yes. 

Jay Abbasi: Nature doesn't have just the on go, right?

Nature has its seasons of [00:18:00] rest. If you think about how anything works in nature, we have seasons. The same thing has to apply to us. No one just keeps going and going and going. Yeah. I will say though, however, just like the cell phone has the capacity. To have all of those apps running and the ability to take on so much demand, I believe the human being does too.

I think the human being has this incredible capacity for demand as long as the human being is charged. Yeah. So that the takeaway here for listeners is make a consistent effort of recharging, and when the season of high demand comes, tell yourself, I need to plan for more. Activities that will help me to have the charge and the energy and the clarity I need to perform at a high level.

Scott Allen: Yep. And that often requires, a few different things, but I like how you're, it requires some planning. Yep. It requires having some boundaries. It requires prioritization, it requires [00:19:00] any number of other support from others at times. I don't know that a lot of people think about the work in that way or that being a part of the work.

Is that planning for recovery, planning for resilience, planning for that recharge. And again, to your point in the literature, they're called reactive strategies. Let's just take alcohol for instance. If I've had a long day and I now have two or three glasses of wine tonight, or a couple scotches tonight and that's, it's a reactive SRA strategy.

It's a quick fix strategy. It's a and actually it's going to deplete me over time. So in the literature they're like, okay what are the inactive strategies or what are the proactive strategies? Actually meditation, working out, rest. Eating well. All of those proactive strategies actually build that resilience and help us.

It's almost like an armor. It's almost [00:20:00] like we're better prepared to navigate because. I have three kids, they're teenagers. So you have a rough day at work, then you have home life. Then we're turning to reactive strategies. It's just a recipe for depletion and you're never plugging in the cell phone.

Jay Abbasi: And the thing that I find helps is to future cast in a way that ha has you connect the activity to something bigger than yourself. 

Scott Allen: Nice. 

Jay Abbasi: So for example, like if I say, all I have all this work. I have all this thing I have to do. I can't get up early because as soon as I get up, I have to get to my emails.

What you're doing is you're really caught in this self-absorption. It's just about me. I'm really self-centered here. 

Scott Allen: Yeah, 

Jay Abbasi: and what I've worked with so many people. What I found really helps to get somebody out of that pattern is to shift into weight. I'm gonna do this activity so I can Yes.

Fill in the blank. So I can be a better [00:21:00] father so I can lead people better. Whatever comes after that is gonna be something bigger than just your current need, right? Yeah. It's rather than just your own self-absorbed thinking, it's something bigger. So when you. Approach it with that mindset and you can get out of self-absorption and connect to something more meaningful, then it will motivate you more to take on the activity.

Even if whatever that so I can is just your future self. Yeah. That's fine too, right? Yeah. Thinking about future Scott, future J, and ensuring that they are able to handle the future demand and be able to experience what it is that they want to experience. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. And to your point, if we can connect it to something they value to being present and healthy for my grandchildren, like whatever it is.

Jay Abbasi: Yeah. 

Scott Allen: And I love that framing because I think we, we can in those moments get very self-absorbed. And to your [00:22:00] point about self-awareness, not be aware how we're coming off to others, not be aware how. I did a post yesterday on LinkedIn. I told a little bit of a story, was working with a leader who just made this.

Horrible kind of comment. Just a sarcastic, biting comment to me. Actually, I was trying to be very productive with my comment. This person didn't like it, made a comment that was biting. It was negative, and it taught the room to not be honest, talk the room, don't participate fully, don't bring your full perspective to the.

To so in that moment, because he wasn't centered and grounded and prepared and aware, and he didn't even know that's what he had just done, right? He had literally ended the retreat. It was done, it was over like finished tens of thousands of dollars on the consultant, hundreds of thousands of dollars on this proposed initiative.

Done. Had no clue [00:23:00] that's how I gently pushed back a little bit, but he didn't see it never circled back. And again, we all make mistakes. All of us do. That's just a thing. But are you aware of it? Do you circle back, Hey, that wasn't my best self. I apologize team. I want you to bring your full self.

I didn't respond how I wanted to. Are you modeling that vulnerability or not? Yeah. And it's fascinating to observe 'cause because if there's very real ramifications from a engagement, commitment, retention, productivity, if we're not showing up in that space of groundedness, centeredness and self-awareness.

Right? 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting when you look at. The neuroscience of it all. I get curious about this. I've, I'm fascinated by the research on how it is that the human brain operates when it's under pressure. Yeah. And what happened with that leader? Based off of what I heard is the amygdala fired off in his brain where he was perceiving threat.

And so for one reason or another, he perceived [00:24:00] a threat. And when we perceive a threat in that way, cortisol starts to flow through the body. It leads us into fight, flight, or freeze as a reaction. So he was in a fight, it seems. Yeah. Based off of it. Now, what's interesting about what the FMRI scans show in the brain is that when you're in that state, the prefrontal cortex, which is the front area of your brain, that is the ability to.

Look at things objectively, make better decisions. Take a step back. Shuts down. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: It's literally not right. It's not activated, Scott. It's not activated. So this is why, and for anyone listening for our listeners, you can really understand this. 'cause this happens to all of us. When you get really angry, you may say something that you later regret.

You're like, I can't believe I said that. I'm sure you've had that experience, Scott. 

Scott Allen: I 

Jay Abbasi: have too. It's because your prefrontal cortex was shut down in the moment when you reacted the way you did. So what we need to learn how to do is train our own minds to be able to activate the [00:25:00] prefrontal cortex when threatened.

Scott Allen: Yeah, 

Jay Abbasi: and this is what. Something like a mindfulness meditation practice or a grounding practice, one that helps you to be more present. It actually creates the bridge between those two areas of the brain. That's what the FMRI scan show a connection that was never there before. Gets established. Yeah.

Which is to say when you do feel threatened, and let's say you play that exact scenario again and this leader now has more of that capacity, maybe that leader feels threatened immediately, but recognizes Oh yeah. I've been threat. I feel threatened. Here. Let me take a moment and respond. Rather than react.

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: With that spite or that frustration. 

Scott Allen: And that pause that, that, that space, I'm fascinated by this Jay, that space, which just might be seconds. It might be, I've trained myself to do a physiological sigh. Huberman talks about that, where it's just like a deep breath in, another breath up and then an exhale.

And if this happens at home. [00:26:00] For parenting. It happens with your partner. It happens at work. It works across domains, right? It's a mult, it's a Swiss army knife tool of wonderfulness. But that pause, I think there's. I think there's hundreds of thousands of dollars in that pause. I think there's, I don't know if we I wish we could quantify when a leader has that pause and creates that space engagement, productivity, retention.

You know what I'm saying? It's really a fascinating, that tiny little space is worth a lot. 

Jay Abbasi: Absolutely, it is. 'cause you can spend. Months, years establishing a psychologically safe culture. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: It's still gonna be fragile. 

Scott Allen: Oh yeah.

Jay Abbasi: One, one reaction. 

Scott Allen: Oh yeah.

Jay Abbasi: Can completely knock down all the pillars that you built and that culture is.

To the ground, it's done. 

Scott Allen: Yep. '

Jay Abbasi: cause of one instance where you made a whole [00:27:00] group feel unsafe and then you have to build it all back up again. And I, the reason I'm using psychological safety is Yeah. What we know from Project Aristotle the Google research that was done, that is the most important factor.

Two. High performance, job satisfaction and innovation. Psychological, creating a psychologically safe environment. Yeah. How do we do that? A leader needs to be able to recognize when something is quite sensitive and ensure that how that leader responds is one fueled with creating a safe environment.

Scott Allen: Yep. 

Jay Abbasi: One bad reaction can take all of that away. 

Scott Allen: Yep. Because the human being is constantly scanning for that danger, for that threat. The human being is engaged in that work. And again, then that's where that circling back, that self-awareness, to your point, that modeling a little bit of vulnerability and some humility and.

Kind of revisiting that with either the [00:28:00] team or the individual that it happened with. Because again, it will happen with our partner, it will happen with our children. It will happen. There's gonna be moments where we don't show up our best. It's just a thing. 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah. Yeah. And with acknowledgement, by the way, you know how I was talking earlier about, and I acknowledge whatever's coming up in me.

Yeah. Which is I was sitting on the floor. I went through that for what happened with my TEDx talk that applies. To how we interact with others. Yeah. So when someone comes to you, you're a leader, someone comes to you frustrated, angry, or whatever it is, acknowledge whatever that feeling is, acknowledge it.

I could tell a story that showcases the opposite of this that I had to go through. Personally. I was a regional manager. It's for a company named Solar City. It was later acquired by Tesla, but I was a regional manager of a territory in New Jersey. And I was learning about leadership. I wanted to be a better leader.[00:29:00]

And one of the things I learned was ask your team for direct feedback. Get feedback from everyone. So I call up my top performer, Scott, and I say his name's George. I say, George, I'm trying to get feedback from the team. I really wanna know how I can be a better leader for you. Can you gimme some feedback?

And George was quiet for a moment. Went Jay, you're doing great. And I said, George, there's something here that you're, that you wanna tell me. Red. It's okay, George. I really, and I had a great relationship with George. I said, George, I really, it would be so helpful for me. Can you please tell me how I can be a better leader for you?

And George said, Jay, sometimes things happen where a customer doesn't show up for an appointment or one of our projects gets disqualified and. You say something like George, everything's gonna be okay. Everything's gonna be fine. And honestly, it makes us, makes me feel like you're not acknowledging the difficulty.

It makes me feel like you're just pushing [00:30:00] through to try to look at like the positive. And honestly it's hard sometimes and I don't feel like I'm being understood. 

And that stung Scott, it really stung for me, but it was one of the most helpful. Some of the best, most helpful feedback I ever received because then on I realized even if as a leader, yes, you wanna kind of shift perspective and help people to look for the opportunity and to move them forward, always acknowledge how they feel.

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: And if someone came to me and they had something difficult that happened, I hear you. 

Scott Allen: Yeah, 

Jay Abbasi: I get it. That's hard. I understand. Depending on the level of how hard it is, it might just be stop there. There's nothing else to be said. Just sit in that soup with them. That's something Mentor once said to me, sit in the soup.

Yep. Just sit in it with them for just a little while and that might, if it's really sensitive, if it's something a little bit more, you could, and not as sensitive, you can acknowledge and then begin to show some curiosity as to how we can work through it. But you have to start with a genuine [00:31:00]acknowledgement.

Scott Allen: Yep. And there's a woman named Lisa Damour and she writes about raising teenage girls. And she says the exact same thing, we can wanna go into fix it mode, we can wanna, and so it's almost like you're partnering with the person and acknowledging where they are. That's hard.

That's not easy. And sometimes that's all you need to say. We don't need to go in to fix it. We don't need to say more than that. I'm sorry that happened. That's hard. 

Jay Abbasi: Exactly. 

Scott Allen: Boom. 

Jay Abbasi: Exactly. Now know if it's an opportunity where there's some coaching involved 

Or there's some feedback involved after the acknowledgement, there is one word that should be coming out of your mouth.

That word does not begin with a B. All right? If that word that comes outta your mouth does begin with a B, if it's, but you are really minimizing the other person, even if you don't intend to, because when you use the word, but in that scenario oh, I hear you Scott. I [00:32:00] understand that it's, it's hard right now, but.

I just, basically everything I said before the word, but I didn't really mean is how you're gonna receive it. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: So instead, what is that word that comes out of the, after the acknowledgement and

A ND and 

Scott Allen: yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: And then it could be a question that could help to then move us out of this. So I share this with leaders and it's amazing.

How many people are in that pattern of using that word, but Scott 

How many leaders struggle with this? And when I did a workshop just last month, and even when I trained people and I gave them a role play scenario, they still would say the word, but 'cause it's just the natural thing to do.

What I encourage our listeners here to consider is train yourself. Be super intentional about that word, and if you do, if you're really intentional about it, over time, it will become natural. For me, as someone who's coached hundreds of leaders, I've done so many of these trainings, it's not [00:33:00] something I have to think about anymore.

I don't use that word, but in that context, the other context maybe, but not in that context. I'm always using the word and, but I had to train myself. 

Scott Allen: Yep. 

Jay Abbasi: To use that word appropriately. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. Yeah. I know, as we begin to wind down our time I want listeners to know a little bit about your podcast because I think you are approaching this in such a cool way, and so I want them to know a little bit about you in that role and how you're approaching the conversations you're having.

So would you share that? 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah. Yeah. So the podcast is called Unstuck with Jay Abbasi, and you could tell I, I like telling stories. I am a storyteller. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: And so every episode with a guest that these are the Monday episodes. We begin with a story, and it's a real case study of a challenge someone is going through where they're feeling stuck in one way, shape, or [00:34:00] form.

The professional context is there. It's normally in a professional context, and we then bring in an expert guest, and the guest and I will talk through how would we help someone who is in this kind of scenario, why did they fall into this pattern? What are some tools, some strategies that they can use to be able to get unstuck?

So it's using real life examples to be able to then. Consider ways to improve one's career, one's ability to lead others, their own personal development. So that's how we do it. It's unstuck with Jay Abbasi. We've been doing it for a while now. And then we also have Friday episodes where I'll do a solo episode with a deeper dive onto one specific subject.

Scott Allen: Okay. How long are your solo episodes? 

Jay Abbasi: Short, 15 minutes or so I do 15 minutes and then the guest episodes on Monday around an hour. Sometimes it's 45, sometimes an hour 10, something like that. 

Scott Allen: Okay. Yeah. 'cause I've been considering some solo episodes and so it's fun just to learn how you're approaching that, how you think about that.

[00:35:00] But yeah, 15 minutes, just enough, a little bit of a. This podcast obviously is called Practical Wisdom for Leaders. So I've been thinking about just, it's a little shot of practical wisdom. 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah, that's it. And Scott, you have so much wisdom, right? You have so much experience that even just 15 minutes of.

You just riffing on something. I'm sure wisdom will come out. Like it's fun, it's fun. I don't over plan those. Just like I, you, you and I talked or I saw in the prep work here. Like you don't over research and neither do I. No, because in the end, what comes out naturally is oftentimes gonna be the most helpful thing for anyone listening.

Scott Allen: Yeah. I don't want it to feel robotic. I want it to feel like a conversation that we're having a cup of coffee and people are listening in and I'm learning about you and your work. And at times I've had guests say, can you give me the seven questions? We're gonna, I can, but,

Jay Abbasi: no, I'm with you, man.

I've been doing my podcast for a while. I've done so many interviews now I spend a few minutes. That's it. And prep. [00:36:00] I never send questions beforehand. I just say I'm curious. I'm genuinely curious and isn't that what ultimately great leaders are, right? Yes. You're genuinely curious. So let's exemplify that in the podcast.

Just be curious and that's gonna be enough to create a great conversation and I think you did a phenomenal job of it today, my friend, 

Scott Allen: well, cruised by my gosh. I always end by just asking what's the practical wisdom in the conversation we just had? What do you think? What do you wanna leave listeners with?

What's the practical wisdom? 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah, I think we touched on it, so I'll leave it with the same nugget, which is acknowledge whatever's coming up. Acknowledge it. Acknowledge it, meet it where it is, whether that's your own emotional reaction, your own stress or pressure, anxiety, or if it's another, you have to always start with what is the current reality?

Don't resist it. Yeah. Acknowledge it before you take any other steps. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. Yep. I love it. And training our brain to acknowledge it. [00:37:00] I'm disappointed, I'm sad, I'm frustrated and having that awareness and all of those emotions for those of you who've seen inside out and inside out too, all of those emotions have a role.

Jay Abbasi: Yeah. 

Scott Allen: Not 

Jay Abbasi: all bad. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. No. They all have a role and for us to stuff away the anger or the sadness probably isn't helpful either. How about 

Jay Abbasi: this? Can you even channel it? Can you channel that anger? 

Scott Allen: Yeah. 

Jay Abbasi: Into something, in some, something positive. 

Scott Allen: Yeah. Oh yeah, a hundred percent. 

Jay Abbasi: Yeah. 

Scott Allen: Jay, thank you for the incredible work you do.

So listeners, there are some links in the show notes and you can find Jay and his work and his podcast in the show notes. Please check those out. Please have a listen to his work. And you know what, sir I will do it again. I appreciate you. 

Jay Abbasi: I appreciate you, Scott. Thanks for having me. 

Scott Allen: Take care.