Practical Wisdom for Leaders with Scott J. Allen, Ph.D.

Soul-Centered Leadership with Richard Barrett

• Scott J. Allen • Season 1 • Episode 286

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Richard Barrett is an internationally recognised authority on organisational leadership, and personal, organisational, and societal transformation. He is the President of the Barrett Academy for the Advancement of Human Values®, and the Founder of the Barrett Values Centre®. His lifetime quest for understanding the deeper motivations of human consciousness led him to study organisational culture, psychology, spirituality and the evolution of societal worldviews. This interdisciplinary approach culminated in developing the Seven Levels of Consciousness Model, known internationally as the Barrett Model.

Barrett is an accomplished author, having written 14 books, the most influential of which are “The Values-Driven Organization,” “Evolutionary Coaching,” “The New Leadership Paradigm,” and “A New Psychology of Human Well-Being.” 

A Few Quotes From This Episode

  • “Knowing your values means you know what’s in your heart at the deepest level.”
  • “You can’t lead other people if you can’t lead yourself.”
  • “The purpose for the soul is simply self-expression.”

Resources Mentioned in This Episode 

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

About  Scott J. Allen

My Approach to Hosting

  • The views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace your reflection,


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Note: Voice-to-text transcriptions are about 90% accurate, and conversations-to-text do not always translate perfectly. I include it to provide you with the spirit of the conversation.

Scott Allen  0:00 

Okay, everybody, welcome to Practical Wisdom for Leaders. Thank you so much for checking in wherever you are in the world. Today, it is a true honor to have Richard Barrett. He is an author, presenter, coach, and internationally recognized thought leader on the evolution of human values in business and society. He is the president of the Barrett Academy for the advancement of human values, the founder of the Barrett Value Center, a fellow of the World Business Academy, and former values coordinator at the World Bank. Richard, such an honor to have you with me today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What's not in your bio that you want listeners to know about you?

 

Richard Barrett  0:36 

What an interesting question. Well, I think it's the last three years that's not in my bio. It may be in my Wikipedia file, I don't know. But anyhow, I've become a portrait artist. 

 

Scott Allen  0:49

Really? 

 

Richard Barrett  0:51

Yes. I got an exhibition going on right now in Hampstead in London.

 

Scott Allen  0:54 

You know, one of my favorite episodes ever was I interviewed my favorite artist. His name is GC Myers. He's located in upstate New York, and it was such a fascinating conversation to have with him because the topic of this podcast is leadership. And I see leadership in his work. I really do well.

 

Richard Barrett  1:14 

I think the key is self-expression. In order to grow and develop and to become all we can become, we have to tap into our self-expression. I call it expression of the soul, basically. What's in you that needs to get out there that is important for the world? And, after 30 years of working in this area of value, and consciousness, and leadership, I took a couple of years off. I thought it was good to go become a painter. Well, I am becoming a painter, but, actually, I got called back to writing books. I've just written one book, it's called ‘Soul-Centred Living: From Survival to Service.’ And now I'm 80% through another book, like, four months later. And so, I think I'm back into writing, and I'm really enjoying it, and enjoying the research, the creativity of digging deep into the psyche and understanding who we are, why we're here, what we're doing. And that involves leadership, of course, but, in a sense, it's leading yourself. That's the key, is leading yourself. You can't lead other people if you can't lead yourself. And so, understanding ourselves is fundamentally important. 

 

Scott Allen  2:29 

Well, I love your phrasing there too, and tapping into who you are and expressing that. And that's exactly what Gary Myers was talking about. He had not yet found a medium to let what was in him out, and then, when he discovered painting, that became his outlet. And I'm so thankful for that. I have an image. Listeners can't see it, but you can. I have an image behind me of one of his works. And there's another book called ‘Range.’ Epstein, I believe, wrote ‘Range,’ but he talked about how a number of Nobel laureates, they aren't just incredible mathematicians. They are also cellists. They also have another outlet that helps them in another domain, oftentimes, make sense of this other domain. 

 

Richard Barrett  3:10 

Well, when you plumb the depths of your soul, it's amazing what you can find.

 

Scott Allen  3:16 

Well said. You mentioned 30 years, decades you've been working on this space of consciousness, of values, leadership, and I was hoping that this episode could be a little bit of a reflection on that work. And we're not going to use the word ‘truths,’ “What do you know to be true?” But maybe we can at least dance around that word. After all of this work, kind of, what do you sense to be kind of a truth when it comes to humans and when it comes to values? I'd love to start the conversation there.

 

Richard Barrett  3:49 

Accurate answer to that question is that what I learned is evolving. 30 years ago, I developed what became known as the Barrack model, the seven levels of consciousness as well, which is now used in companies all over the world to map their value, then see where they are, and also to map leadership values. And that was the start of what I call myself-realization. I'm writing a new book at the moment and digging into what it is, what do all these words mean? And realize that self-actualization is becoming all you can become within the framework of your existence. Not challenging the framework. Whereas, self-realization is going beyond the framework of your existence and looking more deeply inside. And I self-actualize as a traffic engineer. Spent 30, 40, years as a traffic engineer and finished up as an advisor to the World Bank, and then suddenly became bored with that career. And didn't know it at the time, but I was actually shifting into my self-realization, and that's been the last 30 years. And so self-realization is fundamentally important. But beyond, self-realization, and you don't find many people going beyond that is transcendence. So, you let go of the idea that you live in a material universe and that you have needs, and you live in an energetic universe as a soul. And as a soul, you can actually create whatever you need in your life just by thinking about it. And all of the concepts that are in our three-dimensional material existence, fall away. For example, time falls away. And when time falls away, you don't have to worry about patience anymore because patience is time-bound. And, as you learn to let go of the fear that's driving impatience, you become one with this energetic world. That's a little example, but there are more examples. Anyhow, what is it that I've learned? Well, I think I've learned that this journey to transcendence begins when you begin to examine your values, because, up to that point, you've been pretty much conditioned by your parents and the framework of existence you were brought up in, the cultural framework, and the worldview based on beliefs. And so, now beliefs are not a really good way of making decisions because there are assumptions we hold to be true, but the world changes self-rapidly, beliefs are now getting to be meaningless, so you need to shift to values. And that is basically where I started 30 years ago. And I'm most well-known for that because, when I started 30 years ago, nobody was talking about it. “What are you talking about, values?” And now everybody's talking about values. And I kind of moved on into deeper and deeper levels. But knowing your values means that you know what's in your heart at the deepest level. And if you can live by your values, you can live an authentic life. This is a reflection on the book I'm working on right now, which I've got a sort of a trial title. I'm not sure what the title is going to be here, but it's really about something called psychological homeostasis. Now, we're all very familiar with biological homeostasis. It keeps the body functioning and in good health, knows what to do. And if you can't handle it, it creates pain, and that gets your attention, and you go and get it seen too. Well, it's the same with psychological homeostasis. It's exactly the same. When you have an upset, when you have an emotional experience, be it positive or negative, or you feel depressed or upset in any way, this is a sign from the soul telling you you're out of alignment. And so, now you can perhaps find a way to deal with that. So, a subtitle for this book I'm working on right now is something around feeling your way to enlightenment, because feelings are actually the avenue into the dynamic that goes on between the ego and the soul. The ego has lots of fears, and the soul is coming with boundless love, and these two energies don't mix, and that's what creates the upsets and all of the things like impatience, anger, rage, etc. So, anyhow, it all comes back to knowing yourself, really. Leading yourself, being able to lead yourself. That's where leadership begins, leading yourself. If you can't lead yourself, how can you possibly lead others?

 

Scott Allen  8:18 

Yeah. And it sounds like one of the starting points of leading self could be to ground yourself in your values.

 

Richard Barrett  8:25 

Exactly. You summed it up perfectly. That's the one starting point. And parallel to that, you've got to let go of these parental conditioning and the cultural conditioning of beliefs that build your mental model around what's going on around you, and you can self-actualize within that framework. But if you want to self-realize or self-realization, you've got to go beyond that framework. Let go of all of this cultural conditioning and parental approval, if you like, and become yourself. So, that is the second aspect, and it's part of knowing your values is not being overwhelmed, letting this parental conditioning and cultural conditioning overwhelm your decision-making. There are many examples of people who, you find in the very book, of people who actually almost got to this, although did get to the stage of committing suicide because they had this self expression within them they wanted put down to the world, but they were still operating on the parental conditioning or what the parents wanted them to be. And if they did what they wanted to do, they would lose their parents. And this created a moral psychological trauma, which they couldn't handle. And I've been researching them. There are quite a lot of examples of that. So, knowing your values, letting go of this conditioning so you can become truly who you are, and fully self-expressed as a soul in a three-dimensional material world.

 

Scott Allen  9:54 

Yes. And that parental conditioning and that cultural conditioning, unless you are so focused on doing this work over a period of likely decades, unless you are so focused, I just have a minefield, kind of like in my mind, there's just so much that you as an individual have to be so clear that this is a part of your mission, a part of your work. That I want to self-realize, that is my true north. That, if it is, then that gives you a grounding in those values. And then a true north as a potential destination. And minefield might not be the right word or the right image, but we're being taken off track very easily by these other environmental factors. So, it seems like a starting point would be the values. But then another, at least, consideration is, “I want to do this work. I want to self-realize, and that's my true north.”

 

Richard Barrett  10:52 

Exactly. And what I'm saying is, when you stray, so you're going to map up the territory. When you stray off the map, you will feel it through what I call the ego soul dynamic, where fear comes in, creates a disturbance, and you'll realize that you've gone off peace. So it gets you back. If you understand, if you can read the signs, you can get back on track again. Or, if you have a coach who can help you read the signs, you can get back on track again. And that's what I'm writing about right now. It goes much deeper than I've ever written anything before. Even my books on a new psychology of human well-being, even my last book, which is called ‘Soul-Centred Living: From Survival to Service,’ it goes beyond anything I've ever written before.

 

Scott Allen  11:37 

But I love it because I think you just mentioned ‘coach.’ I've worked with a therapist. I have a mentor. My wife and I walk every morning and she helps center me. And so, I love the notion that you have of, look, these feelings, if you're paying attention to anxiety or depression or sadness or anger, they're clues. They're clues that maybe we are not on… 

 

Richard Barrett  12:02 

Clues. They're clues, and they should get your attention. And you got to learn how to read these clues. You've got to become, what's that famous British detective called? I can't remember he's…

 

Scott Allen  12:13

Sherlock Holmes.

 

Richard Barrett  12:14

Yeah, Sherlock Holmes. You've got to become your internal Sherlock Holmes from the inside. Look at all your feelings and your emotions and say, “Oh, what's going on there?” Sometimes I talk to myself. I say, “Hello, Ricardo, you seem to be upset at the moment. You're out of alignment obviously. Come on, Ricardo, get with the program. What is this feeling? Where's it coming from? What's the source? How are you out of alignment and get back into alignment?” Now, the soul. Now, I say the soul is interesting. Everybody thinks they have a soul. Well, actually, you don't. You are the soul. Well, your soul incarnated into your body, and that's who you are. But you kind of got lost in three-dimensional material world, the ego developed. It's a part of the soul, but it's a psychic entity that thinks it lives in the material physical world, and it just takes over because it wants you to survive. And then you get lost in this egoic morass of beliefs that [Inaudible 13:32] and you lose your soul, you lose the connection. So, a lot of my work over the past few years is about how do you rebuild that connection. 

 

Scott Allen  13:32 

Well, it's very, very well said. You lose that connection. You lose that true north. You lose that opportunity, potentially, to self-realize, to tap into. I've had some guests phrase it differently, but who you are and why you're here, what you're destined to be, what your soul wants to be. And so, that coach or a therapist, or it could be close relationships, it could be potentially faith. You mentioned one, a coach, I mentioned a couple. What are some other tools or resources you've come across to help a human being stay the course amid all of the noise?

 

Richard Barrett  14:14 

The well-known ones, like meditation, mindfulness, they all help. And when you focus on spirituality. Now, I have this interesting relationship to spirituality. When you completely focus on spirituality, and a lot of people do, they think it's like, “That's the path,” but they focus on the path and not on the destination. The destination is soul-awareness, surrendering to your soul. That is the destination. When you focus on the path all the time, you'll never get there. You'll have some interesting experiences, and they'll take you a little, but, in the end, if you're not one with your soul, you're missing the whole point. That's the thing about spirituality. You get focused on the journey, and not on the destination, and they put a hand up for that. 

 

Scott Allen  15:07 

Well, I have a question for you here because I think if we talk about conditioning again, let's just, for the sake of example, say I am a Hindu, that kind of predetermined, prescriptive path is the path. Is what you're saying, that might be fine, and there's probably some good wisdom there, and some lessons, and it's probably a good way to live your life, and it may not be meeting your soul's purpose. 

 

Richard Barrett  15:32 

So, this has been quite well researched. There's something called ageless wisdom, which looks at all of these different paths and says there are some things that are common to all of them. And if you’re brought up a Hindu, yeah, you can follow that path. If you're a Christian, you can follow that path. And then, there's ageless wisdom and perennial philosophy. Perennial philosophy just takes, basically, all the common parts of all the religions. And ageless wisdom goes further. It looks way back into history. And the problem with labels, you use some labels, Hindu. All right then, it's a useful label if you're living in a three-dimensional material world, but what it does is it creates separation. All right. I use the word Catholic, that creates separation. I decided a long, long time ago, maybe two or three decades, that I wanted to take all separation out of my life. And so, I don't see the world as made up of the people from different religions; I just see souls having a human experience, and they latched onto a particular philosophy that is helping them. But, in the end, it's just a philosophy, and in the end, you really have to let that go if you want to transcend this three-dimensional material world because that's an element. These labels are elements of the three-dimensional material world. And so, when you focus on these labels, it's helpful, but, in the end, you've got to let them go.

 

Scott Allen  16:59 

Understood. Other reflections. Decades of doing this work, what else are you thinking about right now that, “That was a big one”? 

 

Richard Barrett  17:09 

Yeah, well, there is a really interesting reflection that comes from spiral dynamics, which I totally agree with. You've got to get to a certain level of conscious awareness. And, on my model, it's level five, I think, where you can actually see beyond your worldview. Up to that point, your worldview dominates. You see through your worldview. And Keegan called this next stage the self-transforming mind. And what I say is that, at that point, you can see through your worldview and you can get a perspective on all these other worldviews, but, until you get to that point, you can't. And so, it creates clashes of worldviews. That famous book, ‘A Clash of Civilizations.’ Well, that really was about the clash of worldviews. And I wrote about that in one of my books a long time ago. And so, it’s these clashes of worldview that are the issue. And if we can upgrade our teaching and our learning to the point where we can raise people to that level where they can actually see other worldviews alongside their own, and take the best things from them, and that level is something I call humanity awareness. And I started, many years ago, the humanity awareness initiative. And you can look it up at humanityawarenessinstitute.org. And it's a whole program of how do you transform a whole nation? How do you transform a whole group of people into the worldview where they stop looking, they take up their lenses, and they can actually see everything in perspective? What's going on in America right now? Okay. What's going on in America right now? Trump just won the election, and he got elected because you live in a democracy. And what does that say? Well, the USA, I'm sorry to say, elected a person of a certain level of consciousness that represents the majority of the people. Trump is just an instrument of these people, and he says the right things, and they like him because most of these people never got their deficiency needs met. And so, they don't think America is very great, because American Dream has been lost to them, and they want it back. But actually, what they want, the problem with that is huge inequalities. A bunch of the richest people you can find in the planet to get their inequalities sorted out. Well, I don't think these are the right group for that because I think you're going to get more inequality, not less. You're going to get more separation. You're going to get more discrimination. And that's a reverse direction for the evolution of consciousness. I said at the beginning, we probably wouldn't get into this, but actually we have. Never mind. I'm not bashing Donald Trump, I'm just bashing the system in America that created all these inequalities. I call that worldview wealth awareness. It's a very individualistic worldview, it says, “I'm going to make money, and I'm going to survive, and I've got my security through money.” Well, okay, if you go to Scandinavia, they've gone beyond there into what I call people awareness, and they've solved all those problems through having a word which you can't even use in America, called welfare. And people enjoyed paying taxes in Scandinavia because everybody benefits. Why? You couldn't even quote that out anywhere in USA and have it accepted. That's a completely different worldview. 

 

Scott Allen  20:44 

Yeah. And what's interesting is, as you were speaking, I was thinking of a paper that I wrote with a friend, which was really about how do you design deliberately developmental degrees, where, not only are we teaching you, we could say, horizontal and vertical development, like, you're learning marketing, but you're also developing vertically -- some people don't like that phrasing, but you're developing as a human being. And again, through things like critical reflection, other interventions, we can help the human develop and elevate their thinking, their frame of mind, so that we're getting a ‘both and’ in some of our educational interventions. 

 

Richard Barrett  21:25 

So, that is the fundamental basis of what I call humanity awareness initiative. And it's not new because the Scandinavian that I'm talking, Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland, started this program in 1850. It's a program, deliberately developmental for people, started in 1850 and went on for 100 years up to the end of the Second World War. And that is what elevated the consciousness of the Scandinavian nations. These are the best places to live in the world. They are the happiest places to live in the world. And why? Because they paid attention to exactly what you just said, and they developed programs. And you'll find these programs actually on the Humanity Awareness Initiative website. 

 

Scott Allen  22:09 

It was beautiful. I was in Copenhagen with my wife last year for the International Studying Leadership Conference, and there were young fathers who have weeks of paternity leave to bond with their children. Well, talk about a developmental opportunity for that human adult and for that child, you can't beat that. So, from Maslow's hierarchy standpoint, those needs are met in those societies. It would seem to me, it's not perfect, it's not a panacea, but, generally speaking, it would seem that's the case.

 

Richard Barrett  22:40 

That is exactly true because what these kids grow up into, what parents are doing, is that facilitating the self-actualization and self-realization of these children when they become adults. Got to make it so easy for them to follow this evolutionary path. And they've got that, they understand that. The reason for that is they did something. I introduced a program called Build On, it’s in a book called ‘The Nordic Secret,’ and it was 100 years of teaching in community colleges about how to, basically, what's the word that Carl Young… Individuate. Yeah, it's all about individuation. And they did it because the thinkers in Scandinavia at that time saw the industrial revolution coming down the path. It was mostly an agrarian society, and they said, “We have to prepare our people for living in a different world.” And hats off to them, they really did an amazing job. We can replicate it. I've got a group of people in Brazil, I'm going to meet with them in March in Brazil, who are actually following these ideas that I put up in the humanity awareness, which is somewhat a copy of Build On, what happened in Scandinavia, but on steroids. Going a bit deeper. 

 

Scott Allen  23:57 

It's a fascinating world. Henry Mintzberg has an interesting perspective on this also. He has a book called ‘Rebalancing Society.’ And from kind of his view, he sees, again, the Scandinavian countries, they're fairly balanced. He sees that, in many places in the world, we've gotten out of balance. And, as a result, you get some of these inequalities you mentioned, the wealth disparities that, at least, if we look at world history, that doesn't go well. 

 

Richard Barrett  24:25 

But the interesting thing is, I look at world history and a lot of these world views, the illusion of world views, and actually consciousness has been expanding and developing ever since the birth of homosapiens. Okay, go back 2 or 300 years, and if you stole sheep, you could get sent off to Australia for the rest of your life, or you could get hanged. You could steal sheep now kind of willy-nilly. You might have to pay a fine, but that's it. You can get away with it. Well, “I'm into stealing sheep.” 

 

Scott Allen  24:56 

Sure. Well, we know your alter ego name, Ricardo. So, maybe Ricardo steals sheep, Richard. 

 

Richard Barrett  25:02 

He practically dreams about it, but anyhow, we've come a long way. The abolition of slavery, although there are still millions of people who live in slavery. But at least we have international rules about that sort of thing, but many people ignore them. Consciousness is evolving, and sometimes it goes back a little bit or reverses it a little bit. But, on the whole, the world, at least in the Western democratic world, is a hell of a lot better than it was. It's not so true in the authoritarian world. Most people live in autocratic regimes, and I feel sorry for them because it actually prevents… They can self-actualize in that regime, but they can't self-realize because they can't fully express how they are at the deepest level of their being. Like, you can self-actualize in a regime that's focused on homophobia, but you can't self-realize. You can't declare your homosexuality in most of the countries of the world, otherwise, you could actually get put to death, or you could get put into prison, and that was true in England until the 1950s or 60s.

 

Scott Allen  26:10 

Yeah. And when a human… My phrasing of this, during the pandemic, my family and I were having a conversation and we were talking about life. It’s kind of like people, place, and purpose. Are you, as a human being, tapping into the people will help you be the best version of you? Are you finding your purpose of why you're here on Earth and what your soul wants to accomplish? And are you in a place that helps you thrive, helps you be the best version of you? And for those who aren't and who haven't found that, I think there's a deep-seated, and your phrasing was the soul, and those feelings are indicators that we're off track, that we're not where we need to be. And so, I just really, really appreciate how you're thinking about this because I think it's so incredibly true, that self-realizing, and that true north, so to speak, and accessing resources to help us pay close attention to where our energy is, what emotions we're feeling because that's data. That's information, And again, I love the fact that you're exploring art and that you're a portrait artist because what may not have been something on your radar was there, and even at 70. 

 

Richard Barrett  27:23 

This is soul impulse. I'd had this 30 years earlier when I was working as a traffic engineer at the World Bank. I got the soul impulse to leave, and the soul impulse came through boredom. I just suddenly got bored with my career, I knew I had to do something. And my friends at the World Bank said, “What, you're going to become a transport engineer? You're going to transform consciousness? What the hell is that? And who's actually ahead of you, and how are you going to do that?” And I said, “I don't know. I just have to do it. I just have to follow that.” I call it following the breadcrumbs. Well, let me just say one thing about purpose and mission and all that good stuff, when you let your ego get involved with purpose and soul purpose, it has to be something grand. It has to be, “I'm going to save the planet,” or, “I'm going to do this.” Okay. I'm going to tell you a story now about happiness. The purpose for the soul is simply self-expression. And my mother, who lived to 100 years of age. My father died when I was 17, she spent most of her life on her own while I was traveling to work. My father died when I was 17, my mom said, “Your father wanted you to go to university,” and we were poor, my mom and I. She said, “If you can figure out how to pay for it, I will figure out how to pay for myself. Otherwise, you're going to have to go out and get a job.” So, I said, “Okay, well, I can get a grant.” And she said, “Well, I will take a job as a cleaner at the local Methodist chapel,” because my mom had another job in years. So, my mother became a cleaner at the Methodist chapel, and then she began to realize that she enjoyed flower arranging. And then, she took flower arranging into the chapel, and she began arranging all the funerals and weddings; they had the most amazing flower arrangements. That was her self-expression, that was her soul. Now, it wasn't changing the world, it was just my mom's self expression was around arranging flowers. And she lived to a ripe old age because she worked in that chapel. Just arranging flowers and bringing joy and beauty for people, but that is self-expression. And so, it doesn't have to be anything great or marvelous, it can be anything.

 

Scott Allen  29:39 

Yes. I love your phrasing there. I think it's important to ground that it does not have to be ‘change the world,’ or something that is astronomical. It's whatever it is inside you. And I love that story of arranging, that helped her live into who she was.

 

Richard Barrett  29:55 

And I'll never forget at her funeral. I arranged that funeral, and so what I did was I thought, “I'm not going to have any big wooden caskets, it’s a waste of good wood and metal and brass.” So, I arranged for her coffin to be made out of wicker. And then I asked them to weave flowers into the wicker. And so, that was their coffin. And people really, really got that. And then, in her eulogy, I didn’t know this about my mum, but a lady from the church got up and she said, “I’ll always remember Mrs. Barrett. She knew how to arrange flowers, and she once told me the secret.” And, at this point, when she said what she said, I almost broke down. She said, “You have to leave a space between the flowers so the butterfly can get through.” My mother never had any higher education. She never had a passport. She never had a driving license. But she knew, when you arrange flowers, you have to let butterflies get through.

 

Scott Allen 31:02  

Wow. That's absolutely beautiful.

 

Richard Barrett  31:04 

Yeah. That's an example of soul self-expression, and that's what I say. You have to listen. So, not only are you listening to your soul to correct your course, but you're also listening to your soul into what it is that you're supposed to be doing. So, as I said earlier, I got a message almost three years ago, “Stop writing and start painting,” and I did. I decided to set the intention of becoming the best portrait painter I could be. And then, six months ago, I got another message saying, “You gotta go back to writing.” Okay.

 

Scott Allen  31:35  

(Laughs) “Ricardo, start writing again.”

 

Richard Barrett  31:39 

So, authentic living from… And then, immediately I finished that, I started this new book on psychological homeostasis. And, in fact, I'm back into that track. I had two years of painting, but I still paint. And so, you have to listen for all of that. You've got to pay attention to synchronicity to solve impulses to extraneous thoughts. Yesterday, I was in Brighton, which is south of England, and I was walking along the street, and this disheveled young man initiated and said, “Do you have any change so I can get a hot drink?” And I thought, “You know what…?” I stopped carrying change, not because of that, because I got a little thing. So, I walked like 30 yards past this mountain and I thought, “You know what? I think I got £20 in my wallet.” So, I walked back and it said, “Here's £20, what are you going to do with it?” He said, “First of all, I'm going to get a hot drink.” I said, “Where?” He told me where. I said, ‘Well, then what are you going to do?” He said, “I'm going to get his shower, I’m absolutely filthy.” I said, “That's correct. Where are you going?” “I'm going to this place.” Kips, it's a place where people can… Kip is a sign word for having a sleep, so it's where homeless people go for sleep. He said, “I’m going to Kips.” I said, “Okay.” He said, “Thank you.” And he said, “Where are you from?” I said, “I'm from heaven.” 

 

(Laughter)

 

Richard Barrett  33:00 

“You surely are, you made my day today.” That extraneous thought said to me, “Go back.” I went back. I listened to that thought and created joy for this young man who probably hadn’t had any joy in his life for a week or two.

 

Scott Allen  33:18 

Mmm. Well, Richard, this was so much fun. I really, really appreciate your time today. I always close out these conversations by asking what you've been listening to, or reading, or streaming. Maybe something that's caught your attention recently that listeners might be interested in. I'm going to put a ton of resources and links in the show notes so, listeners, you will know how to access Richard's work on a number of different dimensions. But anything that's caught your attention recently?

 

Richard Barrett  33:45 

Probably my most popular book, as far as people, is called ‘What My Soul Told Me.’ And I can only say what people say. I often get messages saying, “It changed my life.” I wrote that book in two months. It was like [Inaudible 34:04] So, ‘What My Soul Told Me’ would be what I would suggest people read. I've got plenty of them, I've got 650 other books, but that one really gets to the heart of who am I, or why am I here.

 

Scott Allen  34:16 

I love it. I'll put it in the show notes. Self-realization. Richard, thank you so much for an incredible conversation. Thank you for your good work. And I'm so excited that you have a show going on right now of your portraits, that's incredible as well. 

 

Richard Barrett  34:31 

It is, yes. They can go to mysoulismypainter.com website.

 

Scott Allen 34:37 

Okay. Awesome. 

 

Richard Barrett  34:39 

You can see all what I'm painting these days. You can follow me on Facebook. You can see elements of the show. Follow me on LinkedIn, I have a lot of followers on LinkedIn and some of them like my paintings. I didn't sell an awful lot, but people like them.

 

Scott Allen  34:57 

(Laughs) Okay. Listeners. Ricardo. Richard, in quotes, “Ricardo Barrett.” Thank you, sir.

 

 

[End Of Recording]