Practical Wisdom for Leaders with Scott J. Allen, Ph.D.

Personal Growth as a Catalyst for Leadership with Todd Bertsch

• Scott J. Allen • Season 1 • Episode 267

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Todd Bertsch is a dynamic entrepreneur, speaker, and life-optimization coach, best known as the host of The BOLT Podcast. His inspiring journey from overcoming early life challenges to experiencing a pivotal transformation in his 20s has established him as a respected figure in digital marketing, education, and leadership. 

In 2009, Todd founded Evolve Marketing, a successful digital agency. Passionate about inspiring others, Todd's mission is to encourage individuals to embrace change, cultivate a growth mindset, and lead meaningful, fulfilling lives. He has served on numerous nonprofit boards and is currently the president of Leadership Akron Signature Class 39.

A Few Quotes From This Episode

  • “It took me a long time to get to where I am—truly fulfilled and happy—and I want more people to reach that place without having to fail so many times. You can start today.”
  • "When you shift from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset, you open yourself up to possibilities—you become more empathetic, self-aware, and ultimately a more effective leader.”
  • “A lot of people love the idea of being a leader, but they don’t realize how much responsibility comes with it. It’s a privilege that shouldn’t be taken for granted.”


Resources Mentioned in This Episode 


About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in studying, practicing, and teaching leadership. Plan for Prague - October 15-18, 2025!


About  Scott J. Allen


My Approach to Hosting

  • The views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace your reflection, research, and exploration of the topic.



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Note: Voice-to-text transcriptions are about 90% accurate, and conversations-to-text do not always translate perfectly. I include it to provide you with the spirit of the conversation.

Scott Allen  0:00 

Okay, everybody, welcome to the Phronesis Podcast. Thank you so much for checking in wherever you are in the world. I have a new friend today as a guest. I have been on his podcast, I asked him, “Hey, you gotta come on mine. We gotta have a conversation.” Such a fun dialog we had a few weeks back, and I am excited for our conversation today. I have Todd Bertsch, and his journey is a testament to resilience and self-transformation. Overcoming challenges in his youth and a pivotal experience in his 20s, he evolved into a seasoned digital marketing professional, educator, and entrepreneur. He found Evolve Marketing in 2009, channeling his creative expertise into a successful digital agency. Beyond his business achievements, Todd has embraced holistic growth sharing his journey through coaching, motivational speaking, and his podcast, The Bolt. Todd actively contributes as a board member for nonprofit organizations and is dedicated to helping others embrace change, developing a growth mindset, and achieving a fulfilling life. Todd, thank you so much for joining me today. What is not in your bio? What else do listeners need to know about you, sir?

 

Todd Bertsch  1:12 

I don't know. I really love people. I love getting to know people, meeting new people, listening to them about their journey in life. Is that a fun fact? I don’t know, I love it. So, that's not in my bio, per se, but I'm a people person. 

 

Scott Allen  1:32 

Well, I think what's really cool about that answer is that it's really a wonderful opportunity. As you've started this podcast, that's a really cool way to get to know people. And so, maybe we even start there for just a moment. I think you've put forth maybe 14, 15, episodes, and what are some of your observations about this process out of the gates? It's so cool. I absolutely have loved this project of podcasting. What's your experience been? 

 

Todd Bertsch  2:01 

Yeah. Absolutely. It's been a fun ride. It's so much fun. The learning is intense. The preparation, the research, the production, the pre, the post. I don't think people realize how much is involved in doing a really good quality show. And I think you said it on my show, and you and I are so much aligned in so many ways, but it's the learning piece that I love the most. You're forced to, you have to. And we're friends, I know you, but I still had to do my research. And there were several things that I learned, and then I learned even more when you came on the show. So, it's hard when you're interviewing somebody to really take that in. It's afterwards, once I listen to it in my car just like I would any other podcast show, and I'm like, “Oh man, there's some really good nuggets here.” And then I can take some notes and start to absorb that information. So yeah, it's a fun experience. A lot of work, but the learning, for me, is the gift, and I feel blessed to be able to put my message out there and that people want to listen to it. I had a mission and a goal from the start, it's my personal mission, I just want to help people. It took me a long time to get to the place that I'm at today, which is truly fulfilled and truly happy. And I just want more people to find that and really resonate with the younger crowd so they don't have to do all that work and fail so many times. That they can start early. I'm 53 and I'm just getting started, Scott. And that's okay. Like Robin Sharma says the best time to plant a tree was 40 years ago, but next best time is today. So, you can start today. But yeah, I love that. And the other big piece for me, which ties into what we started with, is the connections. I'm meeting people all over the world like you. I just interviewed Dr. Laura Aldape, she just dropped a new book called ‘Optical Emotions’ on emotional intelligence. She's a behavioral economist, and it's a great book. And she's in Switzerland. We had a call last weekend, just an amazing woman. Bright, smart, and this is a wonderful book. But I would never have met her before, I just connected on LinkedIn. I saw that she dropped the book, we had one connection in common. And I reached out, and thankfully, she said, “Yeah, I'd love to be on your show.” And just the community. It's interesting, we are somewhat competitors, if you will, but we're all friends helping each other out, sharing tidbits, resources, guests. “Hey, I think so and so might be a good guest on your show.” So, it's a really tight knit community, and that was a surprise for me. 

 

Scott Allen  4:47 

Yes, I couldn't agree with you more. The learning has been just absolutely wonderful. The opportunity to build the network has been incredible. I always say there's seven or eight or nine wins baked into this activity. And I too, I'll have a conversation. When I listen back to this conversation after it's been edited, that's where a lot of the learning just sinks in for me and I love that feeling. I just love that feeling because it just gets cemented into my brain at that point. And so, that's like a hidden joy in the process as well, that second listen. Sometimes a third listen, that's just, “Okay, wow. This is locked in now. It's there.” And there's always some of those nuggets that people present, and it's just like, “Oh my gosh. That is incredible how you just phrase that, I'm going to take that.” And actually, a lot of my presentations right now that I'm doing with organizations, they're framed around some of the incredible things people have said on the show. It's awesome. 

 

Todd Bertsch  5:47 

Isn't that cool? 

 

Scott Allen  5:49

Yeah.

 

Todd Bertsch  5:49 

One of the things that I've struggled with -- so we talked about a lot of the benefits, I hate to even say this is a con, but there's so much learning it's almost been a little bit of overload. And, I'm so focused on my show, and there's so much learning with that, I'm behind on all the other podcasts like yours, for instance, and my books. Each time I interview somebody, there's three book ideas that come out, and I'm a book hoarder. And I go buy these books, now I got a stack of 20 books, and I'm feeling a little guilty. I'm like, “I need to spend some time there,” but my mind can't take it. I get to Friday I'm like, “My gosh, I'm just consumed so much.” I don't know, I think it's a good topic, like, at what point is consumption overload? I can't take it in anymore because it's not sinking. I just need to put a stop so that I can actually really review it and start to break it down, so that I can figure out how it's gonna integrate into my life or into my work.

 

Scott Allen  6:50 

Yeah. It's a good problem, but you’re right. Every week, a guest is like, “Oh, this is a great read.” And I was doing some show notes this morning. We talked a little bit about it when we were together, polarity management, and that's an area that I just want to learn more about, and managing polarities. And so, I have not ordered them, they're in the wish list right now. I've at least stopped having them pile up in my house, but I do have them piled up digitally in Audible right now. So, I want to go down this road with you today. You are an individual who started an organization, very, very successful firm. Done very, very well. And then there's been this pivot in the last couple years. And we first met, you were kind of talking about this pivot. So, you've been on this journey of personal growth, of transformation yourself. So talk a little bit about that, what you're willing to share. And I'd like to start there because I think a lot of individuals are in positions of authority, a lot of individuals start organizations, and they don't necessarily engage in that personal growth, that work. That, “Am I whole? Am I solid? Do I have a really, really concrete foundation as I start this work with others?” And how did you get to that point?

 

Todd Bertsch  8:12 

Yeah. Thanks for setting that up, Scott. So, really, I think I'd like to start with some of the issues that I had as a person. I was addicted to drugs and alcohol at an early age in my teens. I struggled with a voracious temper. I was short fused, had little to no patience. Those two things were hindering me as a person, and really, into my career they followed me. Well, the temper followed me through most of my life. So, those were kind of two things that I've struggled with for a long time. And I've been in leadership roles my whole life; as a parent, a kid, sports coach like many people, adjunct faculty member for a lot of years, business owner. And like you said, I've been on many boards, different roles on boards. And the sad part is, for many years, I was not a great leader. And I never asked for feedback, and it was never given to me. And I wish somebody early on would have just pulled me aside and not been, I don't know, afraid to just say, “Hey man, I think you have some potential, but this temper of yours, the short fuse is holding you back.” So, it's been really interesting being a guest on a lot of shows. I'm a very reflective person, but it's been some really deep reflection and digging up my past, almost like, “What has the full journey been?” Because it was such a fog for me for so many years. So, I just kind of want to set that up. Those were some of the issues that I had. I didn't really know that they were issues because nobody took the time to set me aside and spank me on the butt and say, “Hey buddy, you gotta make some change here.” And things were different in my 50s. So, 20 years ago, we weren't talking about this stuff so much. There was research in books, but it really wasn't at the forefront that it is now. So, fast forward, and to answer your question, Scott, there were a few moments that kind of sparked, they were the bolt in my journey. So, when I was in my 20s doing drugs and alcohol, just living in a fog, I had no real ambition to do anything else. Day to day, by the moments, parties and just having the time of my life, I thought. There was an incident, I won't go into the full incident, but essentially, I was beat down by two guys, beat to a pulp, barely escaped, and that was a pivotal moment in my life. I realized that I had to make change. Something had to change in my life. And I wanted to do more, I wanted to be more. And I enrolled in college, the University of Akron a week later. That was the catalyst for my journey. I was a non-traditional student, worked full time, went to school full time. Took me six years to graduate. I was a janitor at a local hospital, but I did it. I graduated with honors, I was all in. I gave it 110. So, that was the first real moment that sparked a journey. And then, during my career, ended up working for an internet startup company in Solon called insurance.com. It's basically a spin-off of Progressive. And I was like the 25th person, and then we ended up with like 250. So, it was a really great experience. And I grew so much there, especially in marketing and just seeing a company and all these really young leaders. I didn't know it then, but I learned so much from all their mistakes and failures because there was really no training, no leadership training, no growth training. They were just working as many hours as they could to try to make this product be successful. But I met a guy there, Marc Majors, he was actually on my show a few weeks ago. And he inspired me. And kind of started my interest in growth, marketing, business, leadership. He introduced me to Seth Godin, Malcolm Gladwell, just to name a few. And I really started to get a great interest in learning, and reading, and diving deeper into those subjects, in particular, business and in leadership. So, that was kind of the second thing. And then the third thing was the pandemic. Like many people, there was a lot of reflection, a lot of pivots, and a lot of great work that came out of that time period. And it was then that I started my true holistic journey. I went gluten-free. I bought the Oura Ring because I was really studying and researching sleep. I saw how many leaders put a strong emphasis on sleep, so I wanted to really understand why. And once I started tracking my own sleep, I realized that five, five and a half, six hours just wasn't enough, and I wasn't living kind of my optimal life with full clarity and energy. So, those were kind of two things, but the main thing was I hired my high-performance coach, Christine Hochman. She actually reached out to me, I wasn't looking for a coach. She found me on LinkedIn again. We started a conversation on Zoom because it was during the pandemic, and we just hit it off. And I said, “Wow, I need this. I want to work with you.” And she's been my coach ever since, so about four years. And then she took me through a program called Positive Intelligence. New York Times bestseller out of Stanford. (?Shahzad Shameen?) Excellent program, basically emotional intelligence with a very, very high spin on positivity. That program and my high-performance coach changed my life. Bar none, that was it. It just changed my life, and I was able to build a pause button into my system. So, when I go back to the struggle bus of my temper and my short fuse, now I don't go from 1 to 10. I don't even go anywhere. I just pause, I take it in. I come into every situation with an open mind, and I just reflect instead of react. And that has had a profound impact on my life, but also the way I lead. And, let's be honest, the pandemic was absolutely insane. It was just horrible in so many ways, but there was a lot of good that came out of it too. And to be a leader, and to be a business owner during that time, yeah, it was extremely stressful. I can remember nights, many nights, with a spreadsheet, 20 tabs deep, trying to figure out what the hell I'm gonna do next every day. Am I gonna lay people off? Am I gonna cut their salary? I just had 100 grand pull off the table yesterday, what do we do? How do we pivot? So, it was interesting because I didn't have a choice. And I don't know how others responded, but I felt like if I'm gonna keep this company together -- and we had about, I don't know, 14 people, so not a lot of people, but, at the time, everyone… 

 

Scott Allen  15:26

That’s 14 lives, man. That's 14 lives. 

 

Todd Bertsch  15:28

Well, and times, however many are in their family, right? 

 

Scott Allen  15:32

Exactly.

 

Todd Bertsch  15:32

So yeah. And I've always taken that very serious;  the lives that I'm helping, supporting, serving. And it was tough, man. It was tough. But by focusing on myself, investing in myself, in learning these tools, high performance coach, Positive Intelligence program, I was able to keep my team together. Not lay anybody off, not cut any salaries. And the one key factor that I learned out all of that that I think really kept the team together was communication. Honest transparent communication. And I had already built really good trust with my team, which you know and you've mentioned as a key aspect to being a great leader, but still, during that time, it was all about communication and empathy. Those two key components were what got us through that. But had I not gone through those programs during that time, I don't know that I would have been as successful in the journey of the pandemic as we were. So yeah, I don't know, that was a long answer but… So, started off with a couple of struggles. And finally, there was a moment. Unfortunately, what I've realized with the people I'm interviewing and just shows that I listen to, it takes an incident. It takes something traumatic or tragic, unfortunately, for people to make a choice to change. And I wish that wasn't the case, and it ultimately is most of the time. So, if we can figure out a way to shift and change our mindset from a fixed to an open growth mindset, we can get there faster and maybe without the really traumatic incident that says, “Oh crap, I need to do something. This isn't sustainable.” Or you look back, say it was a near-death incident, and like, “Oh my gosh, now I really need to… I have a true appreciation for life and leading.” So, I don't know, I know there's a lot to unpack there. I'll pause as I've built the pause button in and let you comment on that. But that's my journey, Scott.

 

Scott Allen  17:47 

Yeah. Well, okay, so many things here. So, you had just said the critical incidents, in the literature they're called disorienting dilemmas. They are these moments where we're confronted with, “This isn't working.” A guy named Jack Mazzaro coined that phrase. And, at times, people pause and reorient and redirect. And then, sometimes people, even through these disorienting dilemmas, maybe they don't have the resources, maybe they're blaming others, they, at times, don't learn from those critical incidents. But yeah, it's just fascinating. I think I had a professor as an undergrad, because I've had a coach and a therapist for probably 17 years who I've been with. And I saw an individual for about four years before that. And even in college, I was seeing someone. And I had a teacher, professor, I think she was an adjunct professor in freshman year in college. She was a psychologist, and she said, “People come to me when they're in trauma, and it's hard to help them because I don't know them.” And, for some reason, that ‘aha’ just stuck with me, and then I've always just valued that as a priority. I'm talking to Phil today. I'm going to go on a walk and I'm going to have a conversation with Phil. 17 years that we've been… Since before my son was born. I remember where I was in the moment I told him we were pregnant with our son. And so, those relationships, and those mentors, and those guides, and those individuals. What's so fascinating to me, Todd, is I think that those critical incidents are in front of us. Oftentimes the people to help support us are in our ecosystem as well, can we kind of reach out and latch on? And it's interesting that she just proactively reached out to you. It's Christine, correct? 

 

Todd Bertsch  19:47

Yeah.  

 

Scott Allen  19:48

And, all of a sudden, you kind of had eyes open and you were like, “Hey, maybe this is something that I can explore.” Because, you know better than anyone, if you're not whole, if you're not on sound footing, it's going to be hard to create a great environment for others. And I think, for leaders, it's just so critical because we know what it's like to be in the presence of an individual who is in that healthy place, who is trying to do the work. And we know what it feels like to be in the presence of the leader who is struggling to, whether it's their optimism, whether it's alcohol or drugs, whether it's their home life, they're just struggling. And it's hard for them to in any way, shape, or form, come in and be there for others. 

 

Todd Bertsch  20:30 

Yeah. Absolutely. So, I want to go back. I thought you'd flip the script on me and ask me my one word for leadership. You said ‘influence’ on my show. So, I've been giving that some thought this week, and it's a tough one when you really think about it. And I don't know if you thought that maybe I would ask you that question, because you were like, “Boom.” Literally, in two seconds you were like, “Influence.” And I was surprised by how quick you answered that. It's tough. There's so many words, so many words. I went back to several discussions I've had with other people, some notes. And, for me, everything came back to one word, ‘growth.’ Growth. And if you have growth as that one word for leadership, the main foundation, you will have curiosity, which I think is one of the killer traits to have as a leader.

 

Scott Allen  21:24 

I love that word. Yeah. I love that word.

 

Todd Bertsch  21:27 

Being open, curious, which leads to empathy, which leads to self-awareness, which leads to a high EQ, emotional intelligence. You'll be more positive. You'll be happier. You'll be able to coach, have that coaching mindset. And then, eventually, you will be a tremendous influence on people and their lives. But to me, I kept going down all these roads, and I thought, really, maybe it was curiosity because I'm a big, big fan of that, but growth is where it's at for me. So, I think, if you can change your mindset from being fixed to a growth mindset, to come into a conversation with an empty cup, to be open to possibilities, and to be able to find the gift and the opportunity in every situation, in every scenario, you're going to be one hell of a leader. And you talk about this a lot, Scott, having that foundation. Really knowing who you are. And you had said a quote that was really great, I want to say it was Hogan. 

 

Scott Allen  22:38 

Yep, “Who you are is how you lead,” right? 

 

Todd Bertsch  22:41 

Thank you. “Who you are is how you lead.” But who are you? You need to have a really strong foundation. Anybody can be a leader, and a lot of people aren't… 

 

Scott Allen  22:52

A positional leader. Yes. (Laughs)

 

Todd Bertsch  22:54

A lot of people aren't meant to be leaders. Leadership is freaking hard. And I know your audience is saying, “Yeah. Yeah, man. You're right, it is hard.” It's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of weight. A lot of people want to, they love the notion of being a leader, but I don't think they realize what comes along with that. It is a tremendous amount of responsibility, but it's a privilege. It's a privilege that should not be taken for granted. We are responsible for somebody's life, and maybe many lives, and you could be the one that's going to be the catalyst to help somebody get to that next level or make a change in their life. So, when you have a leader that has a growth mindset, and others see that because you're the model, you're the top, or, at least, for your group of people that you're leading, or your family, or your classroom, they are looking to you, looking at you. It's important. 

 

Scott Allen  23:58 

It's critical. Critical. And there's some individuals in Northeast Ohio, Peter Ray, he would be great for your podcast. You would love a conversation with him. So, we'll connect the two of you. 

 

Todd Bertsch  24:09

Okay. 

 

Scott Allen   24:09

But he with a couple  of other folks wrote a book called ‘Better Human, Better Performance.’ 

 

Todd Bertsch  24:15

I think I've seen that. 

 

Scott Allen   24:16

And so, your word, I absolutely love your word, the growth. Because I think an individual who is in a perpetual, continuous state of growth, and seeking out those healthy guides to do that work, to lead them through that work… Because what I love about that quote is who you are is how you lead. So, that's your history. And it was funny when you mentioned you were a janitor, part of my history was that I was a janitor as well for probably four years during high school. 10th grade through college, the first couple years of college, I cleaned bathrooms sometimes 26 a night, 5:30 to 9:30, and that's part of my history. Or divorce, that's part of my family history, that I grew up in a home that experienced that. Or breakups. Whatever it is, those are part of our history. And the good, the b,ad, and ugly of our history, if we haven't made sense of that, if we haven't kind of reflected upon that, and if we're not actively, to your word, what I love about it, growing through that, well, that shows up to whoever is in our sphere. So, in your case, and I thank you so much for mentioning temper, that's who you were. And maybe that was modeled for you, and maybe that was just part of your personality, who knows, but you got to a point where you're like, “Look, this isn't going to work for me. This isn't going to help me thrive and evolve into who I want to be.” And there's that moment that… I'm very, very thankful for you sharing that story. 

 

Todd Bertsch  26:00 

Yeah. Absolutely. I think it comes down to… And I'm reading Dr. Laura Aldape's book ‘Optical Emotions,’ and it's all about… It's a great book, and you would love it Scott. And it's really tied into our conversation today. And she uses the eyewear analogy, which is optical emotions. But she has these nine mental models, and each mental model has a different pair of eyeglasses. So, it's really easy to digest and take in. But the concept is that we do, our emotions are all based on this history that we have in society and everything around us, and being aware of that is great and a process we need to do. But we all have a chance and an opportunity to put down that pair of eyeglasses and put on a new set and look at it from a different lens. And that goes back to choice. And this is what I think it all comes down to is what makes people want to change? You have to make a choice. And then when you make that choice, you're gonna have to do the work. I was a crappy leader for a lot of years. I made a ton of mistakes, I failed miserably. And I can read about it in the reviews on Indeed, or Glassdoor, or whatever, and a lot of that stuff's true. And that was hard as hell to read, but, looking back, you know what? I wasn't. I wasn’t a great leader. I had my moments. And I always cared, I just had some things within me that I needed to work on. And what I'm trying to say today is it's okay. Yeah, you didn't plant that tree 40 years ago, but you can plant it today. And just recognize that we're all imperfect, and we make mistakes, but what people appreciate is just saying, “Hey, I am not perfect. I'm going to make mistakes, I'm going to lead you, and I want to see you do the same. I want to encourage you. I want to empower you.” That's how you're going to grow. It's okay. People want that. Naturally, people want to grow. It's evolution. We're built for this and our minds love it. The dopamine just fires off like crazy. That's that good feel-good drug. People want it. We want to be uncomfortable. We want a little bit of tension. Whether we believe it or not, we do. That's where we thrive. But you have to make a choice and we all need help. That's the other key component here. We all need help. And I use this phrase a lot, and I think it's going to be, potentially, the topic of my book, get off your damn Island and get your group. Your thinking partner, as you say. I call it my tribe, call it your cabinet, call it your board, whatever you want to call it. Your wine group, great.

 

Scott Allen  28:48

Who cares?

 

Todd Bertsch   28:49

We all need help. You can't be Macho Man, Randy Savage here and just think you can do it on your own. And that was one of my biggest mistakes, Scott, as a leader and building a business is I was this maverick in this blue-collar, and me, me, me. I gotta do it all myself. And if I ask for help, that means I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough. BS, that's what I say to that. That was one of my biggest mistakes. Having 10 people report to me, how the hell can I do that in a really good, sustainable, effective way? No, you can't. So, mistakes matter. Make a choice, find your team, find your people, get an accountability partner, and then let's start to make some change. That holistic change; mind, body, spirit, soul. It's all that, it's not just one thing. And it comes back to making a choice but starting with something small. It's just about shifts; one degree, one degree, one degree, and then watch that thing compound, that consistency, that repetition, that iteration, or you call it experimenting. I love that. I'm constantly doing that. I'm still doing the work. By no means am I perfect, but, man, I've came a hell of a long way from where I was at. But I'm committed to it. I'm committed to that growth and just being the best person I can be. And when I'm the best person I can be, then I'm going to be a great leader for all the people that I serve. My kids, my wife, my team, my friends, my family. Everybody. You owe it to them and yourself.

 

Scott Allen  30:31 

Yeah. That's where it all hits home for me too, it’s just that quote, the Hogan quote, “Who you are is how you lead.” Who you are is how you parent, who you are is how you partner, who you are is how you are a friend. And are you a go-giver, or are you something different than that, right? 

 

Todd Bertsch  30:50

Bob Burg.

 

Scott Allen  30:52

But you know what I'm saying? 

 

Todd Bertsch  30:53

Yeah. Absolutely.

 

Scott Allen  30:54

So, for each one of us, who we are matters greatly. And if others are in our care, it matters even more. And so, I absolutely love the fact that, A) You're growing, and then you've put some things in place that now are systematizing that growth in a really, really positive, cool way. And then sharing what you're learning with others. Because there's others who need to hear that message, who are yearning to hear that message, even though they maybe haven't heard it yet. And you're going to share that with others. You're going to share that learning and that message. And I have great respect. I really, really do because I think sometimes it's really easy… I can't put this into words just yet. I think at times we walk into work and there's this illusion that the work is the work. When there's this huge piece of the work which is called you, which is also the work that should be prioritized. If it's not prioritized, if we let that go to the side, if that isn't a major bucket on your task list, well, that's who you are and that's going to show up to the team. But I think it's an illusion. It's just all the stuff on my task list, and I don't see this really, really big part of me that I need to be working on because that's part of the work as well. And the best way I can say this is, I think I mentioned this to you when we were talking, had these individuals from the Naval War College on my podcast. Listeners, if you haven't listened to that episode, please do. But these three professors, and none of them are in the military, but these three women have been hired by the Naval War College. Incredible expertise they bring to the table. But the Naval War College kind of came to the realization that, “We're going to teach them how to do the work,” quote-unquote, “And we're going to know that they're physically fit, but we have spent decades not focusing on is their family in a positive place? Spiritually? Whatever that means for you. We're not putting any version of that, but are they spiritually ready so that when they are challenged, when they are confronted with all of these very, very difficult things that they do, are they whole?” And if we haven't done that side of the ledger, so to speak, it's not sustainable. It's not. Not sustainable. And things start to fall apart around us. We'll blame them, we'll externalize that. And we’ll -- it's called self-serving bias -- really struggle to see what we need to own in some of that dysfunction, and it's because, in some cases, we didn't focus on what a real big part of the actual work is. 

 

Todd Bertsch  33:37 

Yeah. And I love that, Scott. And I want to go back and listen to that episode. Absolutely, there's a lot to be learned from the armed services all the way around. Jocko. And there's just so much great advice, recommendations from tried and true tactics. But, I'm thinking about this, I think what it goes back to, Scott, is being the type of leader that gives your people the opportunity to make that a part of work. So, we talk about work-life balance a lot, and I've heard this term more recently. And I wasn't on board at the get-go, but I am starting to understand a little bit more. It's the life work integration, especially for those working from home, from a very visual, tactical point, that's where you're at. But I think if we can really bring this to the forefront. So, if it's leaders, if it's business owners, if it's HR, who are the people that are allowing their team to have the space to say, “Okay, well, instead of us giving you a free pizza day, or bagel Mondays, or a foosball, or ping pong table in the office, we're going to implement a process, or a time, or a certain amount of money per person to have a session with a coach.” And it goes back to high school, having a guidance counselor. Basically, just somebody to talk to. This is going to be a great recruitment tool. When your people are happy, which means they've done some work for themselves, you know what? They're gonna produce better work, more work, more innovation, more creativity, and they're gonna freaking stay with you longer. It's kind of a no-brainer. The best investment you can make is in yourself and your people. Instead of going to this $10,000 conference, you know what? Let's just hire a coach and give everyone the opportunity. Don't force it, but just give the opportunity. “Here, you have it. Each person has an hour session.” You'll be amazed at what comes out of that. And if they just start to make little shifts, oh, man, compounding effect on the organization, and the success of the organization, and the retention of the employees, which is a huge, huge challenge in the workplace today. 

 

Scott Allen  36:08 

Well, and I think you've just helped me make a little bit of an insight because I think work, at times, can view the human as what we're going to extract from that human, Work can, in fact, be regenerative in the sense that we are going to ask this human to do work. Of course, that's why you're hired. And we're also going to help this human become a better version of themselves, invest in them as a person. And it's no different than what I was saying with the Naval War College, could work be a place where we truly help people thrive. Yes, back to our conversation. We were in the podcast together on your podcast, I think that can be taken advantage of. Our empathy at times can be taken advantage of. We were not talking about that, it's a balance. It's managing those polarities. But, to your point, what if work was a place where I could evolve, and thrive, and it gave back to me in some very, very special ways, other than just the output and the…? 

 

Todd Bertsch  37:18 

The skills. Aside from the skill base, the human aspect. And that's why I feel like human resources, HR, can be a real proponent, a catalyst for this type of change. And obviously, it starts at the top. And so, again, you go back to the top, and the people that are leading, if they're the ones that are bought into, that can see the results, the impact that personal growth can have, then they'll be a little bit more open to allowing their employees to go down that road too. So yeah, there's a lot there. There's a lot to leadership, that’s why you have a whole podcast devoted to it. But, yeah, growth. For me, it's all about growth. It's a win-win. There's no way that you can lose in that aspect.

 

Scott Allen  38:12 

Well, and I really appreciate the fact that you reflected on that question, and you've come to some clarity in your own mind of what it means to you. I love that because I think we're all trying to do that. That doesn't make me right or you wrong, or you right and me wrong, it's just it is, and we can have a fun conversation about that then. 

 

Todd Bertsch  38:31 

Yeah. I think the fact that we're just actually thinking about it. And so, people just take it for granted, “I’m just a leader, I'm just going to go, go and do my thing, and people will follow.” Well, you gotta have some reflection. Gotta have some reflection. 

 

Scott Allen  38:46 

Well, sir, we will do it again. We will do it again. I'm gonna put all your information in the show notes so listeners can access you and access your work because I just, again, great respect. Real quick before we end off, I always ask listeners what they've been reading. So, what's one book? Or maybe it's something you've been streaming, watching, listening to, what's caught your attention in recent times?

 

Todd Bertsch  39:10 

I talked a lot about ‘Optical Emotions,’ but I think I've beat that one up. So, I have a stack. A book that I'm really, really interested in getting to soon is ‘Scarcity Brain’ by Michael Easter. Michael Easter is very, very interesting to me. So, I listened. He was on a show Learning Leader with Ryan Hawk, and I loved his comments. He just really looked at things from a whole different angle, so I'm very interested in that book I'm trying to finish ‘Be Water, My Friend,’ by Shannon Lee about her dad, Bruce Lee. So, I'm really enjoying that book right now. And I have, yeah, probably five pages of notes from that. So, that's a good one. One thing, and I'll talk about it if I could just mention one thing, Scott, real quick about books. I used to be really hard on myself. Talk about goals, and I had a goal of one book a month, “I'm gonna do it this year.” And hell or high water. if I didn't get to that one book, then I'd beat myself up, I'd feel guilty. And it was, for me, about the quantity and not the quality, which is not walking the walk and talking the talk for me. And I started listening to a few shows, and there were a few guys, gals that were talking about they read the same books over and over and over. And I'm like, “I don't know that I could do that.” And then it hit me. It dawned on me that if I didn't focus so much on the quantity, and I just focused on four books, and I really dug into them, and I started taking notes, and reflecting, and then writing, and then coming back, that would be a better learning experience for me and I would get more out of that. And so, that's the approach that I'm taking. And I'm addicted to books, and I'm 20 deep, and it doesn't bother me anymore. I see it every day, and I'm like, “Yeah, but still, I want to get to that but maybe holidays. It gets a little colder and snuggle up, but it's okay.” So, that's kind of where I'm at. I just wanted to share that, I don't know if anyone else has struggled with that. But yeah, quality over quantity. Really take it in. I'm a slow reader too, and I need the repetition of reading, writing, reflecting and then going back to really have it sink in.

 

Scott Allen  41:23 

Well, again, I just appreciate the fact that you're paying close attention to where your energy is, what your thought process is, what works for you, and then you're doing that. You're you, and I think that's great. 

 

Todd Bertsch  41:37 

Experimenting and iterating all the time. We're never done, brother. We're never done. 

 

Scott Allen  41:44 

We will do it again. We will do it again. Thank you so much, sir. I really, really appreciate you. For listeners, check out the show notes. You will find all kinds of resources. All kinds of resources in the show notes, everyone. Take care. Be well.

 

 

[End Of Recording]