Practical Wisdom for Leaders with Scott J. Allen, Ph.D.

Jeffrey Beeson - Network Leadership: A New Paradigm

• Scott J. Allen • Season 1 • Episode 264

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Jeffrey Beeson has a dual MBA in finance from the Wharton School of Business and an MA in international business from the Lauder Institute. They set the foundation for Jeffrey's interest in business strategy, culture, and leadership.

During his work in the European offices of Bain and McKinsey, he led projects in a broad spectrum of industries on a pan-European and worldwide basis. During his collaboration with clients, Jeffrey experienced firsthand that culture eats strategy for breakfast. Jeffrey expanded his expertise in culture transformation by joining Senn Delaney, the first firm to foster thriving organizational cultures worldwide. At Senn Delaney, he headed culture rollout initiatives for multinational corporations throughout Europe.

Jeffrey continued his personal learning journey at the European Office of
the Center for Creative Leadership (CCL), a prestigious worldwide leadership
development practice. During his tenure at CCL he touched the lives of
thousands of leaders throughout Europe, Middle East, and Africa (EMEA) region and worldwide.

From 2003 to 2011, Jeffrey served on the board of the International Leadership Association, the largest member-based organization dedicated to advancing leadership worldwide.

A Quote From Beeson

  • "The newly emerging science of networks opens an entirely new horizon on how to lead people, design organizations, and make sense of complex social environments."


Resources Mentioned in This Episode


About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in studying, practicing, and teaching leadership. Plan for Prague - October 15-18, 2025!


About  Scott J. Allen


My Approach to Hosting

  • The views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace your reflection, research, and exploration of the topic.


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Note: Voice-to-text transcriptions are about 90% accurate, and conversations-to-text do not always translate perfectly. I include it to provide you with the spirit of the conversation.

Scott Allen  0:00 

Okay, everybody, welcome to the podcast, Practical Wisdom for Leaders. Thank you so much for checking in wherever you are in the world. Today, I have Jeffrey Beeson. He is a dual MBA in finance from the Wharton School of Business, and an MA in international business from the Lauder Institute. They set the foundation for Jeffrey's interest in business strategy, culture, and leadership. During his work in the European offices of Bain & Company and McKinsey, he led projects in a broad spectrum of industries on a Pan-European and worldwide basis. During his collaboration with clients, Jeffrey experienced firsthand that culture eats strategy for breakfast. Jeffrey expanded his expertise in the area of culture transformation by joining Senn Delaney, the first firm to foster thriving organizational cultures worldwide. At Senn Delaney, he headed culture rollout initiatives from multinational corporations throughout Europe. Jeffrey continued his personal learning journey at the European office of the Center for Creative Leadership; a prestigious worldwide leadership development practice. During his tenure at CCl, he touched the lives of thousands of leaders throughout the EMEA region and worldwide. From 2003 to 2011, Jeffrey was a board member of the International Leadership Association, the largest member-based organization dedicated to the advancement of leadership worldwide. Sir, thank you for being with me today. Really appreciate your time, and I am excited for our conversation. But before we jump into that, what else do listeners need to know about you, sir? What's something not on your bio that might be of interest?

 

Jeffrey Beeson  1:41 

Oh. well, I guess something that's interesting is that I'm a chess player, almost grandmaster level. and one of the things that I've done is compete in tournaments worldwide, and I've done very well, but never good enough to make it a profession.

 

Scott Allen  1:56 

Yet. Magnus be on the lookout. Well, Jeffrey, when I think of you, I think about a conversation that we had some years ago now at some ILA conference, and you were telling me how you used to take out senior executives into the snowy regions in Europe. and an activity was to actually build an igloo and then sleep in it as a team-building activity. Talk a little bit about that. I always found that fascinating.

 

Jeffrey Beeson  2:24 

And it is. and I highly recommend it as a team-building activity, if that's what you’re looking for. However, you've got to be ready for some pretty bitter cold, and so it takes a little fortitude as well. I've done all the types of team building; sailboats or walking in the mountains, but that one was definitely one of the more creative ones. and it's quite a challenge because you have to cut out these blocks of ice out of the snow, and you've got to have enough snow, of course, to even do it. So, we were up at 2,000 meters in Switzerland to be able to do it. And then it's a fascinating process. absolutely fascinating. And it requires everyone contributing. And then you think, just as you're about to freeze to death, you finally complete the thing, and you can get in it. And the temperatures outside are like minus 20 centigrade or lower, and inside they're at about zero. Not cozy warm, but compared to outside, it's much better. 

 

Scott Allen  3:22 

You can live. 

 

Jeffrey Beeson  3:23

That’s right. 

 

(Laughter)

 

Scott Allen  3:25

Well, I'm looking forward to our conversation. I know that you have a book with some really new work and some ways of thinking about leadership. And so, you write about this paradigm shift in leadership. And so, you describe leadership as undergoing a paradigm shift influenced by the dynamics of networks. So, could you elaborate on some of the key anomalies in traditional leadership models that necessitate this shift? Let's talk about that for a second. And what new assumptions and practices define the emerging network-based leadership paradigm. So, let's start there and see what you think. 

 

Jeffrey Beeson  4:03 

Okay. Yes, the book is ‘Network Leadership,’ and it's all about a new way of looking at leadership. And you probably asked, “Well, why do we need a new way of looking at leadership? We've got how many volumes of tons of books out there looking at leadership from every possible angle, what could we be possibly missing?” Well, it does look like we're missing something, and that is we've looked at the individual back and forward, characters, traits, everything possible. We've looked at teams. We've looked at organizations’ culture, values, purpose, whatever. And we've even looked at societal leadership, political leadership. So, there's the whole gamut. However, something really interesting has occurred in our lifetimes over the last couple of decades, and everyone knows that something is happening. It's been a disruption that nobody expected. The one wonderful example I like to use is Encyclopedia Britannica. It was the most trusted source of information in the world for over 270 years. And within really only a couple of years, Wikipedia completely usurped it. And now, there's something like 15 billion website visits to Wikipedia versus 150 million to Encyclopedia Britannica. It’s not even close. And Wikipedia has 300-some odd languages, versus Britannica’s only mainly in English. Anyway, we know that something unusual is happening, and we haven't quite put our finger on it, and all of our leadership theory is not quite covering it. And here's where it really becomes interesting because there's a new science and new science kid on the block that nobody's been paying too much attention to, but it's starting to make its muscles hurt and then felt. And this new kid on the block is network science. Network science is really brand new in one sense. It goes way back to the 18th century, in another sense, but actually it only really has thrived because of computers. And it was officially recognized as a separate area of research in 2005. So, you could say that network science is less than 20 years old. However, in that short period of time, it's had unbelievable impacts on our lives. All the algorithms and all of your social network apps are calculated through network science. Our understanding of the brain has been increased through network science. The entire pandemic efforts were guided by network science. So, here's the really key point. Basically, all networks follow the same laws, all of them. So, there are telecommunication networks, there are people networks, there are social networks, they follow the same laws. And all complex systems, and I repeat that because it's so important, all complex systems follow a network pattern, and therefore follow the laws of network science. So, if you just let that digest for a second. If you really get your head around that, it means that organizations are complex systems, and organizations must therefore follow the laws of networks. And nobody in the leadership literature has been looking at this and it's fundamental to how life works. And so, what I do in this book is I take a look at it and see, first of all, what is it, and second of all, what does this mean for leadership. And I'll summarize what it means for leadership in a nice little phrase here, which I think is really appropriate, helps to just capture the spirit of what we're talking about. Networks are not complicated things. They have actors, people in a social network, or devices in a telecommunication network, and these devices or agents or people are somehow connected through information flows. That's about it. They interact with each other, and that's what a network is. So, there's a lot of things happening between the agents, and this is where the new leadership literature, I believe, needs to go. Typically, we focus on the agents, the individuals, the people, the team members, the members of society. Not wrong, I'm not saying that's incorrect, but what network science is telling us is that it's just as important, maybe more important, to focus on the spaces between individuals.

 

Scott Allen  8:52 

Say more about that, if you would. And maybe provide me a couple of examples. I'm really intrigued here, the spaces. So, talk about that piece of this. 

 

Jeffrey Beeson  9:03 

The spaces. So, there's a rule of three degrees of influence, that's basically a law of networks. That when you do something, how much influence do you have on other people or other agents in the network? And essentially, there's been research that's been done on this, and it says that you can influence, of course, your direct contacts, or your friends, for instance. But it doesn't stop there. Your influence continues to your friends of your friends, and it goes on to the friends of your friends of your friends. After that, the influence dissipates. It doesn't go further than that. But that's sort of your realm of influence, if you would. And so, you will have an impact on people that you never meet, and vice versa. People who you never meet will have an impact on you. And this is the way the networks work. Now, the quality of that impact depends, of course, on how you communicate and all these other wonderful things that leadership theory has taught us. But it's interesting to know how this influence works and the kinds of impacts that it has. So, that's one thing. The other thing is that how people are connected has tremendous impact. So, if you just connect people… Let's say you have a fire, and you try to take it out. And you have a water source, it's a fair distance away, and you have some buckets. Well, one kind of network would just line up people in a line, and they would pass one bucket to each other, and they would just go back and forth down that line to get the water to where it needs to be used. It's a very simple network, but not very effective in the sense that the person at the front of the line can hardly talk to the person at the back of the line. It's not a very effective network. If you really want to get communication out, there's a tree network. And how you connect people in the tree networks is that one person is connected to at least two people, and that continues throughout the network. And therefore, you always have different sources of where information can come from. So, the two things that you pay attention to is what is flowing through the network as the influence energy, the information, and how the different agents are structured which can either help or impede the flow of information.

 

Scott Allen  11:31 

Well, okay, so here's where my mind is, and let me know if I'm off. But kind of a tried and true example of a network would be like, in an organization the grapevine, so to speak. That is a communication channel that is happening. You have some individuals who have influence over what's being communicated in the grapevine. And, at times, you have people in official positions of authority who are trying to communicate, but that actually has less impact than what's actually happening in the grapevine. The grapevine has the power. And if the leader is not designing with some level of intentionality how communication flows, and again, going through strictly traditional means, which has some level of impact, but maybe not a great level of impact, that impacts them as a leader. Am I tracking at all here?

 

Jeffrey Beeson  12:25 

Oh, absolutely. What you're describing here is what is called hubs in networks, and those that have the most influence in spreading gossip or rumors or whatever have a certain amount of what is also called centrality in a network. Most number of connections, the easiest access to that hub. And if your powers that be aren't as strong as those hubs, those hubs don't necessarily have to have official positions in organizations, they have a much better communication platform than, perhaps, other managers in an organization. So yeah, that's a structure issue, and you can understand why rumors, or you can even track them by doing what is called an organizational network analysis of an organization and seeing where those hubs are, and why certain… That's one of the fascinating things about this. If you want to do a culture change inside of an organization, you need to know who your influencers are. You need to know where your hubs are. And you need to work with those areas to get your message out. And if you don't, your initiative is going to fail.

 

Scott Allen  13:28 

Well, and another example here, and this is not me, nor do I want to get into a political conversation… Maybe that was a bad way to entree. But if you look at the election that we just experienced in the United States, here you have Donald Trump tapping into some non-traditional networks. So, you have him going on Joe Rogan for three hours, giving three hours of time, and Kamala Harris not agreeing to do that. Or him going on Lex Friedman, or him going on some of the other podcasts that, again, have these vast networks associated with them. There's power and authority potentially there in a very, very different way than going through traditional news media sources today. Back in the day, it may have been that you needed to be on CBS, NBC, and ABC to get your voice heard. Today, it's a very, very different game. Is that somewhat…

 

Jeffrey Beeson  14:24 

I would agree with you. I think you're seeing the crumbling of the media infrastructure in the United States. And what you're seeing is a series of very, very potent hubs that are even just private individuals that have built up a tremendous following. And you could say that they probably have greater impact than do the networks.

 

Scott Allen  14:46 

Wow. Okay. Interesting. Okay, so we're tracking. And so, in this new paradigm, talk a little bit more about that. So, kind of the role of connection and flow in leadership and how that aligns to what you just said.

 

Jeffrey Beeson  15:03 

So, yeah. So, what I'm saying is that there needs to be a paradigm shift because organizations are complex systems, they therefore follow network principles. And you need to understand, as a leader, how networks function. If we look at organizations today, the only people that have any exposure to networks are your data analysts, and maybe an odd organizational development person, but this needs to become a common language for leaders everywhere. They cannot avoid this. And when we talk about the evolution of organizations, you'll see that this is an absolute must requirement. If you want to know why you're being disrupted, well, there are very, very clear reasons, and the network science tells us why you're being disrupted and where this journey is going. As a leader, you better know what it is that's happening around you. I'll give you another wonderful example. Have you heard of the six degrees of separation?

 

Scott Allen  16:02

Yes.

 

Jeffrey Beeson  16:02

I think that's a pretty common popular thing, but people think of it more as a trivia game, where if you're given a letter and you're saying, “Can you reach the President of the United States?” That's typically how it's done. How many hands does it have to exchange before it gets into the Oval Office? For that matter, it doesn't have to be the President of United States, it can be any person on this planet. And the answer is six or less, which is amazing. And that's an entire set of network theory as well, in terms of you cut through the network by finding the so-called weak ties that cut across networks. Now, if six is what it takes to get to the President of the United States, what do you think the average path for a normal worker in a large multinational -- it has to be large, we're talking 30 to 40,000 employees, maybe -- to get to the CEO in that organization with the existing network that's available? What would you guess? 

 

Scott Allen  17:05

Eight. 

 

Jeffrey Beeson  17:06

Yeah. That's about nine. About nine. That tells you one very important piece of information, the communication network is not effective, and that there's a huge room for improvement. 

 

Scott Allen  17:21 

Well, and I've even come across individuals in organizations now, in fact, one of my neighbors is involved in a large multinational, Fortune 500 organization, and it's not just employee experience, but it's employee communication. So, how are we communicating to these hundreds of thousands? Well, in this case, it's about 100,000 employees. And in multiple languages, some of whom have email, some of whom don't because of a manufacturing facility. So, what are the multiple channels that we're utilizing, whether it's social media, whether it's print, whether it's, again, in different languages, in different locations around the world? That's a fascinating puzzle. And I was amazed at this… Basically, it was a barbecue last summer, I was learning about his job, and I was just absolutely fascinated. But yeah, it would seem to me, in those locations, unless that communication is being designed in a more thoughtful manner, and, in this case, I think they're at least trying to focus on it, oof, you're… 

 

Jeffrey Beeson  18:30 

Well, it's not just about the communication design, it's also about understanding how your organization is connected. By just changing a couple of connections, bringing two people together can shift the dynamics of the communication completely if it's the right person. Because you often have this issue that comes up constantly that, like, the marketing and finance department don't talk to each other. But if you find the best connected people in both of those departments and they become best friends, it changes everything. And so, when you want to improve communication, you don't always just look at, “How am I going to make the message better?” Take a look at how you can make the connections better.

 

Scott Allen  19:14 

Oh, that's wonderful. Well, what are a couple of other principles, Jeffrey, that you want to make sure people understand so that… Again, we're not going to go super deep into the book, but I want to entice listeners into why this is so critical of a topic that they need to begin to investigate this. What are a couple of other concepts that you want to make sure we touch upon in this conversation?

 

Jeffrey Beeson  19:41 

Well, one of the things is that -- and I think this has a lot to do with people's satisfaction at work, feeling of really well-being and belonging, all those issues have a network component to them. And, a lot of times, the simplest way of fixing some of these issues is to watch and to be aware of what kind of social configurations are most rewarding for people. And one of the examples I show in my book is, and I'm not doing the advertising for the military here, but people that join the Marines train in groups of, maximum, 10 people, and they spend 24 hours a day with each other. They know each other inside out, and they know that… It's all on purpose, of course, because when the real danger comes, then you can immediately rely on the people around you. And what we can learn from something like that is [Inaudible 20:48] to Marine, but that people really long for really good connections. There's data that says that if you have one friend in the workplace, you're 40% less likely to quit. 

 

Scott Allen  21:01 

Well. Yeah, Gallup has that question, “I have a best friend at work, ain't that cute?” Yeah.

 

Jeffrey Beeson  21:08 

And it creates a sense of belonging. And also small teams actually it turns a bit too big. The ideal size for teams in the research is four to nine. If you keep teams small, those relationships can build. You can feel like you're really surrounded by friends. It's possible, anyway. And from network science that communication is better. So, paying attention to size of teams is really important. Interestingly enough, but you also have to do the opposite. You have to also have large group sessions to create a sense of community. People see the system that they see that they're part of a greater whole. You don't have to do it often, but you have to do it because people then just get lost and they don't feel like, “What is this company, anyway?” But if you have large sessions where people can see the system, that is the requirement to feel like you're part of that larger system. 

 

Scott Allen  22:10 

Wow. So, we have a smaller group, four to nine, so that we can build relationships, give that sense of cohesion, etc. But then we're also seeing the larger often. So, I think of some of these larger events that, at least, some of the remote teams that I'm working with, they're at least working to get people together a couple of times a year so that I can be in community and be with others. That's a priority. What else? What else comes to mind as something that you would want listeners to be aware of or have on their radar?

 

Jeffrey Beeson  22:44 

Well, one of the things that I really focused on is the quality of relationships, because that increases the quality of connection, the quality of information flow. And one thinks often as of mindfulness, as something that's good for the individual person and for their health, which it is. But I see it now, when I'm looking at it from a network lens perspective, I see it as a way of improving yourself as a communication agent inside the network because you're able to sense what's going on around you better and communicate it to others better. And so, I do believe that if businesses want to improve the quality of connection, which is essential for the health of networks, that they should invest in mindfulness for all stakeholders.

 

Scott Allen  23:37 

So, give me an example of that.

 

Jeffrey Beeson  23:39 

Well, the one I have here in Germany is SAP, and it's instituted a mindfulness program throughout the organization. It's now rated one of the best employers to work for in Germany. And, yeah, one of the software powerhouses, one of the few that come from Germany. So, anyway, I understand that Microsoft has a very extensive program in that direction as well. It's not offered to all employees the way SAP does it, but it's completely voluntary at Microsoft. I'm not so sure that it's completely voluntary at SAP, but a large amount of Microsoft employees have taken the company up on it.

 

Scott Allen  24:18 

Well, it's a fascinating topic that I'm just dipping my toes into the water. I think you and I were in a session with David Day at the ILA conference. In his most recent book, he starts talking, there's the chapter two on this topic. And he's looking at it through the frame of leader development where he's talking about networks. And so I'm just now getting through those chapters in that book, but this definitely does feel like something that we have to have an awareness of, we have to understand. Whether it's a political campaign, an election, or whether it's an organization or it's a non-profit in a community. Significant ramifications, right?

 

Jeffrey Beeson  25:10 

Oh, yes. Well, and I haven't even started talking about the impact on organizations. That will be a bit scary for some people. We've seen disruptions. We've seen how they work. They come out of nowhere, [Inaudible 25:24] supposed leader, apparently. But they're actually completely logical from a network science point of view. If you think of agile, everybody knows agile. That's a network phenomenon, not only a network idea in terms of how you structure work. And so, our platforms, and now our various industries are talking about business ecosystems. The pharmaceutical industry works with universities and works with various types of other organizations and institutions to try to service their customers, and sometimes even with their competition. When you looked at the vaccine work, they also worked with biotechs to get the vaccines out. So, collaboration across organizations, which is also a network issue. And what is happening as well is that you're beginning to get the so-called agile organization. I think a lot of the Silicon Valley organizations have been moving in that direction where things are completely flexible and you can move people from one section of the organization to another. And then, now we have, I don't know if you've heard of this, Rendanheyi? 

 

Scott Allen  26:33

No.  

 

Jeffrey Beeson  26:

Well, it comes from China, interestingly enough. And I think probably it comes from there, because they're not tied to Western processes. And it's a company that has basically mastered, or really taken to its logical conclusion zero distance to the customer. And what that's meant is that they've completely dismembered a company, it was over 50,000 employees, into units, so-called micro-enterprises, maximum 10 to 15 people. And they've grown, by the way, they've done fantastically well. They're now at 100,000 employees. They have 4000 micro-enterprises. Nobody gets a salary from this company. You join a micro-enterprise, and then you have to work and you have to serve your customers. You have zero distance to the customer, which could be another micro-enterprise inside the organization as your customer, an internal customer, or it's an external customer. You get money from them. And then, when you do good work, then you can decide inside your own micro-enterprise, nobody decides for you, how people inside that micro-enterprise are going to be compensated. And we're just at Rendanheyi 1.0. And I've been working with groups here in Germany that are working on Web 3.0, which is basically looking at blockchain and basically taking the Rendanheyi system into the cyber world so that the future of work... This is all completely understandable if you understand network science, that you will not join a company in the future, you will join a micro-enterprise who happens to be networked into society in some form. And you'll do that from the comfort of your computer. This is all still many, many, many years away, but the inklings of that are already starting to shun themselves. People are working on this stuff. I'm sure this is where it's going, and it's fascinating.

 

Scott Allen  28:44 

Well, Jeffrey, how do people learn more? I think we've definitely provided enough to intrigue.

 

Jeffrey Beeson  28:51 

I've just started warming up here.

 

(Laughter)

 

Scott Allen  28:54 

I know. Well, what do you think? Where can people learn more about, not only your work, but where can they learn more about the book?

 

Jeffrey Beeson  29:01 

Well, first of all, the book is available on Cambridge University Press, and so they can go there, and then it's the elements series. And if they put in ‘network leadership’ in my name, they'll find it for sure. Just so that they know, it's Cambridge University Press, and they have a special series called ‘The Elements series.’ This is where it's being published under. I would recommend, in addition to reading my book, which I think will give them a good overview of what's happening and all the various dimensions of this, is to take a popular book that was written about network science, and the one I would recommend is a book called ‘Linked’ by Barabási, one of the foremost scientists that have brought this field to where it is today.

 

Scott Allen  29:46 

Well, and I will put links -- ha, ha, ha, no pun intended -- to both of those so that we can make sure that listeners have access to that. Any other resources that you want to make sure people are aware of when it comes to this topic? There are two books, is there anything else there? 

 

Jeffrey Beeson  30:05 

Well, I would direct them to my LinkedIn profile because I post probably, at least once a week, if not more often, something on the topic of network leadership. There's such a myriad of different topics so that they can get a very good overview. And then also on our website, we have a section on our menu called ‘The Ripple,’ which is our monthly newsletter and that has a collection of articles that they can read. And we handle everything from talent management, to innovation, to AI. By the way, artificial intelligence, which we didn't even talk about, is a network issue. (Laughs)

 

Scott Allen  30:45 

All roads lead back to you. Well, okay, I always close out these conversations by asking guests what you've been listening to, reading, what you've been streaming. It may have something to do with what we've just discussed, it may have nothing to do with that, but what's something that's caught your eye in recent times that may be of interest to listeners?

 

Jeffrey Beeson  31:07 

Well, I'll talk about a what I call serendipitous encounter at the ILA conference in Chicago. I went to the brook review on the first evening of the conference, and I met an author there, a guy called Nico de Klerk. And Nico de Klerk is related, remotely related, I've now known, or he has explained to me, to the former president of a Nobel Prize-winning president of South Africa. And he had a passion to help the underprivileged people in his country, and he did what he called  the long walk. He walked all the way from Pretoria to Cape Town, visiting 100 townships. It was during the 100th anniversary of Mandela's birth. 100 townships trying to spread the word about entrepreneurship, and taking action, and taking care for yourself and not waiting for the government or whatever else to help you out, spreading the word of entrepreneurship. And I just found this whole story very moving. And I'm reading his book at the moment, it's called ‘No Fit,' and I can highly recommend it. It's a work of passion and love from Mr. De Klerk. 

 

Scott Allen  32:25 

Awesome. Awesome. I will put a link to that in the show notes as well. Jeffrey, you're challenging my thinking, which I love. You're challenging the thinking of our listeners, which I love. And I'm intrigued to learn more. So, thank you so much for stopping by. Very, very much appreciate your time today, Sir.

 

Scott Allen  32:44 

Okay. Leaders are learners. This is an area where, definitely, I need to learn more. What have I done about that? Well, I started listening to ‘Linked’ which was the book that Jeffrey suggested we explore. And I preordered his book, which, as this is being released, should be available for you to pre-order as well. Network leadership. How does network science impact the work of leaders? I'm excited to learn more. Take care, everyone. As always, thank you so much for checking in. Thank you to Jeffrey for bringing us a new topic for us to explore. And, as always, I appreciate you. Bye-bye.

 

 

[End Of Recording]