GC Myers - You've Got To Be a Full Person

GC Myers is a contemporary painter from the Finger Lakes region of New York. He came to painting in mid-life and quite by accident, as a result of an accident that occurred while building his home in the early 1990s. Since that time, his recognizable landscapes, known for their strong colors and moods, are avidly collected here and abroad.

Over the years, he has had over 60 one-man exhibitions at galleries across the country which represent his work. These solo exhibits have taken place at galleries in New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, and California.

In 2012, Myers' work was featured in an exhibition, "Internal Landscapes: The Paintings of GC Myers," at the Fenimore Art Museum in Cooperstown, NY.

A Quote From This Episode

• "Art is about connection; you've got to be a full person. You've got to be a well-rounded person. Eventually, it shows if you're not."

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

• Website - GC Myers 
• Blog - RedTree Times
• Book - In Quiet Places by GC Myers
• Documentary - GC Myers: Finding Home
• Paintings - Archeology Series by GC Myers
• Musician - Bill Mize 
• Musician/Composer - Moondog
  • "I do not strive to be different for the sake of being different, but do not mind being different if my difference is a result of my being myself" - Moondog
• Book: Demian by Hermann Hesse
  • “The bird fights its way out of the egg. The egg is the world. Who would be born must first destroy a world. The bird flies to God. That God's name is Abraxas.” - Hermann Hesse, Demian

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

• The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in studying, practicing, and teaching leadership. Plan for Prague - October 15-18, 2025!

About  Scott J. Allen

• Website
• Weekly Newsletter: Practical Wisdom for Leaders
• Blog

My Approach to Hosting

• The views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace your reflection, research, and exploration of the topic.

Chapters

• 0:00 From Laborer to Painter
• 11:43 Personal Growth Through Artwork
• 17:58 The Inspirational Journey of an Artist
• 29:34 The Musical Legacy of Moondog
• 34:36 Transformative Power of Art

Transcript

Note: Voice-to-text transcriptions are about 90% accurate, and conversations-to-text do not always translate perfectly. I include it to provide you with the spirit of the conversation.

Scott Allen  0:00  

Okay, everybody. Welcome to the Phronesis podcast. Thank you for checking in wherever you are in the world. Today is a very, very special day for me. I have been following the work of GC Myers for years now. It might be 15-plus years. His work has had a great impact on me. We're going to get into that, but I want you to meet GC Myers. He is a contemporary painter from the Finger Lakes region of New York. He came to painting in midlife and quite by accident, as a result of an accident that occurred while building his home in the early 1990s. Since that time, his recognizable landscapes, known for their strong colors and moods, are avidly collected here and abroad. Over the years, he has had over 60 one-man exhibitions at galleries across the country which represent his work. These solo exhibits have taken place at galleries in New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, and California. In 2012, Myers' work was featured in an exhibition, Internal Landscapes: The Paintings of GC Myers at the Fenimore Art Museum in Cooperstown, New York. I'm going to add another little thing to his bio, he is an incredible human. Gary, thank you so much for being with me today. I know you're a huge Yankees fan, so that's a fun fact we could throw in there, but What's something else that's maybe not in your bio that might be of interest to listeners? 

Gary Myers  1:24  

Well, basically, I had a bunch of experiences before becoming a painter. I never really thought of myself as a painter until, actually, in just recent years. Even when I was deeply into my career, I was still kind of denying that I was an artist or a painter. I always kind of felt like I was hedging into other people's territory. I still thought of myself kind of as a small businessman or a laborer. 

Scott Allen  1:52  

Well, there's an identity shift there, right? 

Gary Myers  1:55

[Inaudible 1:55]

Scott Allen  1:56

Yeah. So, let's talk a little bit about the impetus because you came across painting not later, like later, later, but a little bit later in life. And so, let's talk a little bit about that because it's been so much fun to watch and follow along. Redtree Times, your blog, and we'll put a link to that in the show notes, but it's been so much fun to just follow you. But how did you come to this place where it became more of an activity for you; day in, day out?

Gary Myers  2:24  

Well, I had a business at one time. I had a swimming pool business, I had 20-some people working for me, and there was a point where I realized that was not the path that I wanted to follow. To be quite honest, I was a lousy businessman. I was good at selling the product, I was good at doing certain aspects, but as far as managing people, things like that, I was an abject failure and I recognized that. And I could have kept going on that path and been moderately successful, but I would have been more than moderately unhappy and I began realizing that. I knew that I needed something that gave me a little more self-expression. I'm going to step back real quick, when I was a kid… And I did a talk with fourth graders a few years ago, I said, “I became a painter because I felt very much like you do.” And I said, “Do you guys ever feel like you're not being heard?” And they just screamed. They all screamed, “Yes.” And throughout much of my life, I felt like I didn't have a voice, that I wasn't really being heard, and I had no form of expression. And that began to gnaw at me in my late 20s, early 30s. It was like I was just kind of aiming for that.

Scott Allen  3:48  

And so, you hadn't tapped into… There was a piece missing, or there wasn't something fully there. You're managing people, you're selling pools, you're doing well, but maybe it's not your calling, so to speak. Maybe it's not truly you. Maybe it's not expressing your voice in the way that you hoped it could. 

Gary Myers  4:10  

Oh yeah. To be as successful as I needed to be at that business, I would have to deny parts of myself. I would have to do things in ways that I didn't find comfortable. And I really didn't want to be that person. And, in a way, I'm thankful that I found out early on, maybe six years into my business. It was like, “Okay, this can't go on.”

Scott Allen  4:37  

Okay. So, the impetus for the painting, there's this accident. Is that accurate?

Gary Myers  4:42  

Yes. Over the years, I had tried different creative forms. I had tried airbrushing, I had tried carving, wood carving, etc., and nothing that really satisfied me. And I began building a home for [Inaudible 5:00] my wife and I, that we currently live in. And then one day I was on the ladder, I fell about 16 foot, knocked my teeth out, shattered my wrist. I was a mess, had like 30-some stitches in my mouth. At that point, I had regressed from having this business. I had kept going backwards as far as moving away from taking responsibility. I went from having this business, and then I became a finance manager at an auto dealership for a while. A car salesman as well. And then, from there, I became a laborer for a couple of years. Then I decided to build this house, had the accident while I was a laborer, and then I became a waiter at a Pancake House, Perkins Pancake House. And, after this accident, I had several months to recuperate, and I picked up some of the airbrush paints. I was bored out of my mind, I couldn't do a lot. I had this cast on, and I put a brush in my cast and started doodling with these airbrush paints. And, for some reason, something clicked. I don't know if it was the impact, everything just seemed to work at that point and I became obsessed. When I went back to work, I would work eight hours a day, I would work on my house three or four hours, and then I would paint for about four hours every night. 

Scott Allen  6:25

Really?

Gary Myers  6:26

Yeah. And that went on for about a year, and I never thought anything would come of it. I had no aim. It wasn't like I'm saying, “Okay, I'm going to start painting, and then a year from now I'm going to start showing my work. And then, a couple more years, I'll be this professional painter.” I got no idea, that wasn't in my base of knowledge. I never grew up with artists. My family was kind of lower middle class. The edge of low class and middle class, we were right on the boundary. So, the idea of being a painter just seemed very far-fetched. But after about a year, I had started stopping at this gallery in Corning. The owner is a fellow by the name Tom Gardner, who's a well-known painter locally here, and he and I just clicked. We talked. I would just go in, and he would pull chairs out into the middle of the gallery, and we'd sit for three or four hours and just chat. And one day he asked if I painted, I'd been painting about a year at that point. And I said, “Not really.” He said, “But you do,” and I said, “Yeah.” He said, “Well, bring it in.” He said, “I'll critique it.” And he said, “But let me tell you, if I don't like it I'm going to be honest with you, I'm going to tell you that it's not good.” So I said, “Okay, I'll bring it in.” And I brought in my work. It was a blue milk crate with all this cardboard and pieces of paper sticking out of it, and that's my portfolio that I brought [Inaudible 7:51] And he started laughing when he saw i. And he knelt down, and he started shuffling through it, and he goes, “I have a question.” He said, “Yeah.” I'm terrified at that point, it's like he's going to tell me, “Why would you do this?” And instead, he said, “Where the hell have you been?” And I said, “What do you mean?” He goes, “This is great.” And his wife, Linda, came over at that point and began looking and said, “Can you have [Inaudible 8:16] work? Can you have 12 pieces for our next show?” Which was in about two and a half weeks. And I had never framed a painting in my life, I had no idea how to present my work. And I said, “Of, course. Sure, no problem.” And, in a couple of weeks, I was in a show. It was terrifying. I remember standing up to the side as people were going through this show. I'm not standing in front of my work, I'm just near it with my glass of wine. And I got a lot of great compliments that night, but the part that stood out to me were the people that just walked by. That actually affected me more than the people who came up and gave me this praise. I began thinking, “Okay, what do I have to do to make those people stop? What do I have to do? There's something that they're not seeing that I see, how do I make them see it?” And it changed my work a little bit. And it was interesting to watch that progression from then.

Scott Allen  9:22  

Okay. So, we have the show. Still not identifying as an individual who is a painter, so to speak. You're not there yet. How do you start…? When I think of your voice, quote-unquote, I'm putting that in quotes, I think of just the iconic red tree. I think of the chair. I think of the houses, the red roofs. I think of your just beautiful… For me, I absolutely love any time there's something with a boat in the sea. I just absolutely love those pieces of work. Your archeology series. And so, when's the first time you're thinking, “Okay, I have a little bit of a voice here. This is interesting.” And maybe it's when was the first time you started noticing people start to stop and look? (Laughs)

Gary Myers  10:10  

Well, after about two years. I had a series called The Exile series, and that was in 95, the year that I actually started showing. At the same time, my mother was going through lung cancer and breast cancer and passed away. And she died in Florida, and we had this separation. We went down a couple of times, but we couldn't be there all the time, and that was hard. You felt like this kind of sense of exile from your family, from your parents, and that work came out of that. And that was the first time I felt like I had really gained a voice, something that was truly personal. That other people could identify and they could read it for themselves and find similar feelings within themselves. I was doing it with the landscapes as well, but, at that time, my work was much more minimalist. It was the red tree, the red chair, the red roofs, archeology. None of those came about until around 2000. Those first four or five years, it was still kind of bouncing around trying to find it. And actually, I was a part-time painter for the first couple of years. I showed in Corning, in Erie, Pennsylvania, at the Kada Gallery. I was picked up at the principal gallery in Alexandria, which is one of my main galleries now. But my work was small, and there were these very quiet landscapes. Very, as they say, minimalist, like a block of color above and a block of color in the foreground with a thin line separating them. It was kind of like Mark (?Broth?) colors. And, well, in 1998 I was approached at the Pancake House by a gentleman who had begun following my work. He had come to the restaurant for a number of years, and they liked me, and they sat in my station, he and his family. And when he found out I was a painter, he was really intrigued by this, and he began going to the gallery and looking at my work, and followed for a couple of years. Then one day he came in and said, “I'm not here to buy pancakes, I’m not here to eat, I'm here to buy paintings.” I was like, “What?” And it turned out he was a designer for Corning Inc., and he had designed a new facility down in New Jersey for their photonics research. And he had based it, without me knowing, on my paintings and my colors that I was using at that time, and he needed all of these large paintings, and he needed them in a short time. And he said, “Can you do that, much like the framing for the show at the west end?” I said, “Sure.” And I had never painted anything larger than maybe an 18 by 24, he wanted these three-by-four-foot paintings. And so, I took a couple of weeks off from my job and just began a table set up all through our house painting. And the work grew. And that actually gave me the confidence and the impetus to become a full-time painter just a couple of months after that. I was like, “I can do this.” Confidence. And confidence is a big thing in art, well, in any business, to tell you the truth.

Scott Allen  13:31  

Yeah. As I said to you before we started recording, my reaction to your work, I'm passionate about leadership, and leader development, personal growth, transformation, and I just see that. And I don't know if it's just my eyes looking for what it's looking for in your work, but, from the moment I discovered your work, I was transfixed, whether it's the iconic red tree. And, for me, there's kind of hope in that red tree, there's vision in that red tree. So, there's all these words that come to mind when I'm… There's growth in that tree. There's just this kind of charisma about that tree. So, all these words that I associate with leadership, and I'd never had this happen before with artwork, that these words that are so meaningful to me in this one context are now visually in front of me. I mentioned earlier that some of the works where the individuals at sea, just kind of that vision of us going somewhere in an uncharted territory. And so, it's so interesting, even for me right now, to try and verbalize what I feel and experience when I am in the presence of your work. But I see it, it's this visceral reaction. An early painting that we purchased, it was probably the early 2000s, it was called A New Path. And it's just this beautiful piece, and it's a path, and it's leading to a tree. And I just was at a time in my life where I was literally embarking on a new path. It has to be so interesting for you to hear what others experience in your work. That has to be fascinating.

Gary Myers  15:16  

Oh, I have been so, so fortunate. A lot of times, you never know what happens to your work. It goes to a gallery, and it sells, and you never hear about it again, but I've been incredibly fortunate over the years to have so many people at gallery talks and openings express what they're seeing in the work. And sometimes it takes my breath away because it's like, “Wow, that's…” When you're working, it becomes an abstract thing. You're working at this surface, some days you look at it and you go, “What the hell am I doing? I'm smearing paint on a piece of board, how can this have meaning?” And then when somebody tells you something, tells you how it affects their life… I've had people tell me that they cried, and I'm going, “Are you kidding me? Really?” And I'm so grateful that they're so willing to share that with me. And it's really interesting. The red tree that you mentioned was really kind of the turning point, though. That has become… Well, you talked about transformation. There was a book that I read when I was at my lowest point in my life. I went through a lot of hard times after my business closed, and in between the time I began building that house. There was about a five-year period where I was just stumbling around blindly. I read this book, and it was about transformation, and there was a line in it, “Whoever wants to build a world must first destroy a world.” And it's Hermann Hesse, the German writer. And the book was ‘Demian.’ And that really changed the way I looked at things because that part of my life became like this light that I had to build anew. There's an interesting connection here. I'm working on a project right now with a Chinese publishing firm that is using a series of my red tree paintings for their Chinese publication of Hermann Hesse novels. 

Scott Allen  17:29

Wow.

Gary Myers  17:29

And each book will have a different red tree painting on it, it kind of caught me off guard. And they saw this connection between Hermann Hesse’s work and the red tree. And I was this serendipity, kind of astounded me. And it was just interesting that this Chinese firm reprinting a German writer saw my imagery as [Inaudible 17:52] for it. And I just thought that was very interesting. It gives me an idea that there is this continuous fleet that runs through everything.

Scott Allen  18:01  

Yes. And another series that just has always resonated with me, not only because of the beauty of the work, but the archeology series -- and, for listeners, I'll put some links in the show notes for you, but there’s this individual growth that occurs, and hopefully, you have an individual as a leader who's whole and mature as possible. If we place a person in a position of authority who is not whole, who is not mature, who is struggling, that's going to show up to the team, that's going to show up to the country, that's going to show up to the organization or the community. And so, it's interesting because the red tree, for me, it's aspirational, in a sense. But the archeology series does a beautiful job of kind of showing what's underneath. Maybe there's some boulders, maybe there's some artifacts that we have all collected along the way that is all a part of who we are. And again, it beautifully captures, for me, a person. And, I don't know, what feedback have you received on those pieces? Did [Inaudible19:07] that.

Gary Myers  19:08  

The archeology series is by far, probably, the most responded to of my work. Most of it was painted… There was kind of a burst of that work in 2008. Now, that's when it kind of… And, in n subsequent years, I only do a couple every now and again. I don't do a lot of that, but that work still resonates… Well, in your area, The Great Lakes Archeological Society contacted me to create some prints for them from the work that they use on their website, and things like that. There's a Danish theologian who has a book coming out this coming year that will have one archeology painting on the cover of the Danish revision, and a different one for the American edition. It's been used in magazines in New Zealand, Denmark, Sweden, several other places. I'm always kind of astounded how people respond. Maybe it's just that there's not a lot of archeology art out there, I don’t know.

Scott Allen  20:13  

(Laughs) “I'm kind of a big deal among archeology art collectors.” 

Gary Myers  20:18  

Oh, I hear from a lot of archeologists, and I'm always really interested to hear what they have to say. They just love the idea that there's these layers of strata and then artifacts. And even though it may not equate to reality, it still has symbolism that they respond to. And I get a kick out of that, and I love painting that work. It's interesting to see how people respond to it. Children go crazy for it, I just love watching them respond to it. When it's in the galleries, if there are several pieces, they go from piece to piece, trying to identify pieces that might be similar in each one. And there are certain artifacts that I use consistently; a peace symbol, a certain shoe, things like that. So, yeah, the archeology series definitely gets a lot of response. 

Scott Allen  21:15  

Well, I think where I want to close out our conversation, and I think what I'm interested in for the last little part of our conversation is the creativity and the creative process. Where do the ideas for you come from? How much experimentation is there that the world never sees? What is your source of motivation after the long period of time that you've been engaged in this work now? What's your continual source of motivation? Because you're just prolific. How many paintings are being produced a year?

Gary Myers  21:51  

Probably, at this point, 90 to 100. But, years ago, it was much higher than that. The process has evolved over the years. It's become more layered. And what you ask about inspiration, I'm in my studio here seven days a week. This is where I am. I'm in here at 5:00 in the morning. And I go in and out, but I'll be here from 5:00 to 6:00, 7:00 o'clock at night. Seven days a week, just about every day of the year. It's just what I do, there's no other place I'd rather be. But the caveat to that is, if I'm not exciting myself with the work, if the work is not triggering an emotional response for me, then I'm not happy. My biggest task is to create the excitement that other people might see in it. And if I'm not feeling it, nobody is. And I can't remember who said it, “No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.” And it's the same thing. As far as inspiration, it's what I tell art students when I go to classes and talk to them, “Learn your technique, learn your process, etc., but, more than that, expand who you are. Read, listen to music, watch films, talk to people, talk about things, talk about ideas. Don't just focus on what color, ‘I'm going to use a cobalt blue and a number four brush.’ It's all fine and good, but if you're going to connect with people…” Because art is about connection, you've got to be a full person. You've got to be a well-rounded person. Because, eventually, it shows. If you're not, chances are it’ll show itself.

Scott Allen  23:41  

Mmm. Well, and when you're there for 10, 12, hours, are you in a state of flow?

Gary Myers  23:47  

Well, it depends. Different parts of the year, when I'm preparing for shows I'm deeply in the flow. I call it my groove. When you're in that, it's wonderful because time just kind of melts away. Time becomes inconspicuous. You hate to stop, and that's a wonderful feeling. You have these up and down, like, waves of activity. And when you're preparing for a show and you're at the top of a wave, it's the greatest feeling. And then, after a show, you're inevitably… For the first couple of weeks after a show, you're at this low out. Your confidence is shot. Even if it's been a great show, you've lost your endpoint. And, for me, I need to have endpoints, something to shoot for. And, fortunately, I've been able to find those. A big part is, as I say, I get a lot of inspiration from… I consider myself an emotional painter. I can always tell when I'm at my peak of creativity, when I'm most easily moved by things, when I'm most easily moved by music. Like, I watch a lot of films in the studio. They have to be old films so that they have a lot of dialogue that I do not have to look at the screen to… These are films that I've seen hundreds of times, so I know what's coming, so that when I zone out in the painting, I can come back into the film. But there are certain films that just have these triggers that when I know that I'm doing well, they'll click and it's like I'll get an emotional response from it immediately. That goes back to what I was saying about my job. My greatest task as a painter is creating excitement in myself, emotion and excitement. If I'm painting -- and this has to do with a lot of businesses as well. A lot of painters get to a point… And I felt like I could have done that with the red tree, where I would be, quote, ‘The Red Tree guy,’ and, to a point, I am. And it would have been a plateau. And it's a very nice plateau, it's rewarding, it pays the bills. You have a modicum of success and you don't have to push yourself. But that never felt right to me. You see that with a lot of artists and you see it with a lot of businesses. They achieve a certain amount of success, and then they just rest there, and that becomes as far up on the mountain that they want to go. For me, it was always about getting off that plateau, trying to move up a step, try to find a new path up. And sometimes you go up the right path and sometimes you don't, but it's the effort that sustains you.

Scott Allen  26:41  

Yeah. And I have great respect. You hear that from comedians sometimes where they won't recycle jokes, it's always going to be a new series of jokes. Or musical artists that are continually kind of shifting and challenging where they're going, and that's where that inspiration is. I'm just so thankful for our time today, Gary. And I always close out by asking the following question… I know that you love music, I know that you love film, for listeners, it's baked into Gary's blog, and so you're going to have a link to that in the show notes. And then, also, there's always these wonderful lessons on artists and just reflections on his own work and poems and quotes that come to mind as he looks at… I don't know how you name all these pieces. That's got to be a fascinating process too because it's just prolific. But I always ask guests what you've been listening to, what you've been reading, what you've been streaming. What's caught your attention in recent times that listeners might be interested in? It doesn't have to have anything to do with artwork. What's caught your eye?

Gary Myers  27:47  

Well, let's see, what up I've been listening to? I've been listening to a lot of… He's a musician called Moondog. Moondog was a street performer in New York in the 50s and 60s. Not even a performer, he was a street person, I should say. He was called The Viking of 6th Avenue. He would stand in the business district in a Viking helmet, this robe. He was very tall, 6’5, or something. He was blind. He had been blinded as a boy in Nebraska in the 1920s. And, in the 1950s, he had a record contract. He was a good friend of Philip Glass and Stephen Wright. He counted Duke Ellington and Count Basie as good friends, but he would walk up 6th Avenue, and there's this guy just standing there hand handling. Not coming out and asking you for anything, but just standing there and people would drop money. And he became so famous that European guidebooks listed him as somebody to see in New York. And he was a big influence on the American composer Philip Glass because, when you listen to the two of their musics, recurring them side by side, you can hear the music of Moondog in Philip Glass's work. And, for me, there's a personal connection because in the 1960s he came into the area which I live in, the Finger Lakes region of New York. He took a bus from New York, this blind Viking, and he bought a piece of property out in the middle of the country about 20 minutes from here. And he would come there in the summer and he lived in a hall, a (?Doug hall?) and he had ropes all across the property that he would follow. And, in the summer, members from the New York Philharmonic would come up and camp with him. And they would put on shows for themselves, they would play and stuff. I had never heard this, and I immediately connected with the music. And I just love the story, that just added this depth to it. And it's just interesting music.

Scott Allen  30:07  

I will check that out, and I'll put some links in the show notes. That's awesome. Moondog.

Gary Myers  30:12  

Moondog. He actually, as they say, not many street people in the 60s had record contracts. And he would sleep in doorways, and things like that.

Scott Allen  30:24  

Wow. And what instrument did he play?

Gary Myers  30:27  

He actually created percussion instruments. He had these strange-looking with different forms of boxes with these symbols and things on them, and you can hear it in the music. It's not for everybody, but it clicked something in me. 

Scott Allen  30:46  

I can see you painting away and jamming. 

(Laughter)

Scott Allen  30:52

Well, Gary, thank you so much for your time today. For listeners, there's all kinds of links in the show notes. This is an individual who has tapped into his voice. You certainly have found that for sure. And I love the fact that your work is finding itself to all aspects, in all places in the globe. I know that some of the work is hanging in Tibet, if I'm not mistaken. 

Gary Myers  31:17

Yeah. No, it's been around the world and it's inspiring. Going back to the music part and the archeology series, there's a new album out by a Grammy Award-winning guitarist named Bill Mize who used one of my archeology paintings on the album cover. And I'll send you a copy. 

Scott Allen  31:38

Okay. Please do. 

Gary Myers  31:41

It's just finger-style guitar music. It's wonderful.

Scott Allen  31:44  

Well, congratulations. Thank you so much for your incredible work, I know that it's made a difference in my life. Our home is filled with your work, and they are heirlooms that will be passed along for years and years to come.

Gary Myers  31:57  

Thank you for having me on and thank you for the kind words. It beats me here in the suit.

Scott Allen  32:04  

This is a hard episode for me to debrief, and I don't necessarily know why. Maybe similar to struggling to put into words what I felt when I look at Gary's paintings, I'm feeling the same now. But there were some phrases in this episode that just really stood out for me: ‘Finding my voice.’ ‘A form of expression.’ And, towards the end, he said something that really, really struck out to me, “You've got to be a full person.” And I think there's a really, really nice connection to leadership there. Are you a full person? A whole person? Someone who's working to become a fuller person? A more whole person? If others are in your care, if we want others to respond to us, are we at our best? When I look at Gary's work, I see so much. It's transformed my life in many, many ways. It's a visual representation for leadership, and that has just been an incredible gift. Gary, thank you to you. I am so thankful you found your voice. I think each of us are on a path to find our voice, to find that form of expression, to add meaning and purpose to our lives. And I am so thankful that you found yours because it's transformed mine. As always, everyone, take care. Be well. A lot of links in the show notes, check out Gary's work. Bye-bye.

[End Of Recording]