Marianne Crosley - Transforming Communities

Marianne Crosley retired as President and Chief Executive Officer of the Cleveland Leadership Center after leading the civic education leadership development and civic engagement organization for 14 years. Under her leadership programs to build civic leadership in Greater Cleveland grew significantly to reach 600 individuals across generations annually.

In addition, she launched SPARK, an annual leadership conference, and Accelerate, an annual civic pitch competition. Prior to assuming the helm at the Leadership Center she served as the founding Executive Director of Summer on the Cuyahoga. This economic development initiative attracts young talent to Northeast Ohio.

She has received numerous awards, including Crain's Cleveland Business Woman of Note, Smart Business Progressive Woman, Non-Profit Executive Director of the Year, and the Lifetime Legacy Award from the Association of Leadership Programs. She is passionate about creating positive community change and has leadership roles on several non-profit boards.

A Quote From This Episode

• "We make sure that each program is structured differently so you can begin with your high school program and move on to our collegiate, young professional, mid-career, and senior levels. And it's all a journey - you're not repeating anything that you're learning. You're being exposed to new concepts and new people every step of the way."

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

• Association of Leadership Programs
• Cleveland Leadership Center
• Lovely One by Ketanji Brown Jackson

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

• The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in studying, practicing, and teaching leadership. Plan for Prague - October 15-18, 2025!

About  Scott J. Allen

• Website
• Weekly Newsletter: Practical Wisdom for Leaders
• Blog

My Approach to Hosting

• The views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace your reflection, research, and exploration of the topic.

Chapters

• 0:00 Community Leadership Programs and Generational Approach
• 12:58 Leadership Development in Transitional Communities
• 18:09 Creating Effective Community Leadership Programs
• 29:33 Inspiring Leadership and Community Change
• 41:07 Building Stronger Communities Through Leadership

Transcript

Note: Voice-to-text transcriptions are about 90% accurate, and conversations-to-text do not always translate perfectly. I include it to provide you with the spirit of the conversation.

Scott Allen  0:00 

Okay, everybody, welcome to the Phronesis podcast. Today, I have Marianne Crosley, and I am one of her biggest fans. I need to say that out of the gates. So, Marianne, I'm thankful. This is just a wonderful opportunity for us to share your wisdom with leaders, and so I'm very, very excited for that. But I'm going to finish your bio, and then I'll continue with the gushing accolades. 

(Laughter)

Scott Allen  0:28

Marianne Crosley retired from the position of president and chief executive officer of the Cleveland Leadership Center after leading the Civic Education, Leadership Development, and Civic Engagement Organization for 14 years. Under her leadership, programs to build civic leadership in Greater Cleveland grew significantly to annually reach 600 individuals across generations. In addition, she launched Spark, an annual leadership conference; and Accelerate, an annual civic pitch competition. Prior to assuming the helm at the Leadership Center, she served as the founding executive director of Summer on the Cuyahoga, an economic development initiative that attracts young talent to Northeast Ohio. She is the recipient of numerous awards, including Crain's Cleveland Business Woman of Note, a Smart Business Progressive Woman, Nonprofit Executive Director of the Year, and the Lifetime Legacy Award from the Association of Leadership Programs. She is passionate about creating positive community change and serves in leadership roles on several nonprofit boards. Marianne, what is not on your bio that maybe listeners would be interested in before we jump in?

Marianne Crosley  1:37 

So, I guess it's captured in everything that you said, but I consider myself a civic entrepreneur. I want to approach things with innovation and driving change, and just go for it and hope that there will be people following along with me.

Scott Allen  1:55 

(Laughs) Well, I love that phrasing, though, ‘civic entrepreneur.’ Because the Cleveland Leadership Center, over the years under your leadership, yes, there had been a lot of experimentation, a lot of innovation, a lot of really, really trying to understand and figure out how do we spread this message to a larger and larger population and across multiple generations. So, we'll get into a little bit of that. But I do want to start… Because, Marianne, we've never really focused, in this podcast, at least, on the association of leadership programs; ALP. These community-oriented leader development programs. So, there might be Leadership Cleveland, or leadership Columbus, or Leadership Atlanta. At times, there's a state-level Leadership Ohio. There's those types of programs that exist as well. And, of course, as you've taught me, it's international. So, there's Leadership Berlin. It's all over the world. So, we've never had that conversation, so I'm excited to have that conversation today so that listeners have an understanding. Because this topic of leadership education, it comes out of the most interesting nooks and crannies, whether it's industrial & organizational psychology, schools of business, colleges of agriculture. Texas A&M University has hundreds of leadership minors out of the College of Agriculture, you'd never really think that. But community leadership development is another one of these spaces that I think at times we don't necessarily think of. So, if you would, talk a little bit about the ALP. Obviously, having won the Lifetime Legacy Award, you're familiar with the organization. So, maybe bring listeners into that as we begin. And then we're going to move specifically to your experience leading an organization in a community and some reflections on that work.

Marianne Crosley  3:42 

Sure. So, the association of leadership programs itself has been in existence since 2010 and it serves as the umbrella organization for, as you referenced, these community leadership programs that exist across our country and globally. Yes, there's Leadership Berlin, there's Leadership Poland, there are leadership programs in Australia, New Zealand, and other countries. And all of these programs were born out of a need that, “You know what? We can affect change in our community. We can do better.” And we can do that by, as you referenced, educating leaders. But the difference between the leadership theory and university programs is that community leadership programs are based upon building relationships. So, forging relationships, yes, across generations, but also across differences. So, the kind of common theme is that there is a flagship program in each of these community leadership organizations, and I want to state that, as you said, sometimes they're very small. There can be a suburban community that has its own community leadership program. There can be a major metropolitan area, there can be a region, a state. And they all are bringing together people across differences, people with different backgrounds, different lived experiences. They come from different employment sectors, but they share a leadership role in whatever sector they serve. So that they come with the leader mindset, and what we want to build is a willingness for them to grow and be open to what they can learn from others and what they can learn from the curriculum that's based in these leadership programs. So, when I say curriculum, you say, “Okay, well, she just said it's not all about education.” It's about the relationships first and foremost. So, the way that the programs are structured is that they follow usually, a nine or 10-month learning journey where we ask people to come together, walk away from their professional lives, their personal lives, and spend a full day immersed with one another in these classes -- and classes, depending upon the location, can range from 25 individuals up to 65 or 70 individuals -- and to spend the day learning about the community together. Each day would have a theme. It might be economic development, it might be health and human services, arts and culture. And so, they're learning about the challenges that their community is facing, the opportunities, and again, going back to those relationships, figuring out how they can work across differences collaboratively to address these issues.

Scott Allen  6:44 

Mmm. And what I really, really appreciated about the Cleveland Leadership Center was how we are working not only with juniors in high school, but we have a continuum across the lifespan of programming for individuals who have retired. Would you talk a little bit about that? Because I think that is such an important piece of all of this as well. We're building relationships. We are embedding folks in the community and helping them learn about the community. We are adding in curriculum and discussing leadership, because, as you know better than anyone, leading in a community context is very, very different from leading in a more hierarchical organizational context. And so, I think sometimes some of our corporate leaders can be a little bit flat-footed when shifting their mindset of how work gets done in this context. So, talk a little bit about that Generational approach too, because it's so cool.

Marianne Crosley  7:43

Sure. We have eight programs at Cleveland Leadership Center. Many of the programs that exist across the country may just have one flagship program where it's those more prominent community leaders, sometimes they're grassroots community leaders. We were formed in 2006 when there were four programs that existed independently in the city. And some brilliant people -- I was not one of them, I just inherited a great organization -- said we can build a whole continuum of leaders. If we start with high school students and continue that continuum all the way up to retirees, think of how strong we have the potential to make our community. So, they brought together four existing programs, one for high school students, one that existed for college students, a young professional program, and a senior-level program. And, from that, we have broadened out that spectrum and we address the needs of mid-career. We have programs for individuals who maybe don't want to spend those nine or 10 months learning together. They may not have the time, they may not feel the need. So, we have short six-week sessions that they can come together and still learn, and hopefully, that whets their appetite to do more. To find another program, to continue on their own leadership journey. And it's been absolutely inspiring to watch this in action. So, with our high school students, we'll invite students from across the county, and each school can send a maximum of two students. So you're getting students from urban schools who never knew leadership existed, or that they could have access, or what does it mean to network? What does it mean to confront community challenges? How do we work collaboratively? “Oh, we can be a team of leaders addressing a challenge, much like my football team?” So, they learn a tremendous amount. And then when they have the opportunity to interact with those C-suite leaders or the retirees who have so much to share, light bulbs go off. And, of course, it's beneficial for both groups. The more senior folks think that, “Oh, we're going to mentor down.” And what they soon realize is, “Good heavens, we're being mentored up. They are teaching us what's important to their generation and what we need to do to ensure that they've got the skills equipped so that they can follow in our footsteps and lead.” So, we try and make sure that each program is structured differently so that you can begin with your high school program, move on to our college, young professional, mid-career, senior level. And it's all a journey, you're not repeating anything that you're learning. You're being exposed to new concepts, new people every step of the way. 

Scott Allen  10:38 

But what I love about it is… And correct me if I'm wrong, Marianne, please. I think you've done a beautiful job not only looking at those different generational slices, but then we're very, very clear about what we want this curriculum to be. It's very much focused on civic understanding, civic readiness to get involved. It's embedded in relationship-building and then collaborative leadership, I think that's where that leader development piece comes into all of this also. So it would seem to me that those four pillars weave throughout, they're just different levels of the conversation. Is that accurate?

Marianne Crosley  11:16 

Oh, absolutely. You're spot on. And what each of them serves to do is we want to develop an individual's competencies, the knowledge, the behaviors, and the perspectives so that they think and act differently. As you said, it's all about collaborative leadership. So, when we talk about differences, you just think of our political climate now and how polarized we are. So, we're getting people from all ends of that polarized spectrum that are coming together, and they each come in with their points of view and their opinions. And they have to learn that it's a growth mindset, it's a learning mindset. So, you are there to learn from others, and they have to appreciate, “How do we dialog differently so that we can come to a shared understanding?” And this goes back to building the trust and fostering the relationship so that you have that rich web of social connections that allows you to tap into other folks to help you to, yes, advance your own organization, whether it's a major bank, or major law firm, or that small nonprofit that's serving a neighborhood. So, you have the ability to tap into the leadership skills and the networks of all of these individuals to advance social change. 

Scott Allen  12:33 

And I have seen that firsthand where I might look out at a room and you have an individual from a small nonprofit focused on gun violence, to the individual leading NASA Glenn. And they're at the same table, and they are learning from one another. It's beautiful, right? 

Marianne Crosley  12:52 

It is. And they're learning in ways they never thought possible. It was always just a wonder to watch because people come into the program and it's all about, “What am I going to get out of it? Is this going to help to build my network? Is this going to give me a new book of business? Am I going to get a new funder or a new board member?” And then there's this transformation, this evolution that happens, and, all of a sudden, “It's not all about me, it's so much bigger. And it's about what I can give to others to help them to see different perspectives, to appreciate nuanced problems in a different way.” And, by the end of that journey, that 9-10, month journey, you can no longer tell who leads that tiny nonprofit and who leads a major healthcare institution. It is a great leveler, and they have that shared understanding, that mutual respect from one another. And that's the goal, that they leverage what they've learned.

Scott Allen  13:46 

What I would love to kind of explore with you now; you led the organization for a number of years, and for listeners, I want to situate you -- and Marianne, please push back if you disagree with anything I'm about to say, please, because you are the expert here -- but just for listeners to understand the context of Cleveland, Ohio, you have a, what would be called in the United States, a Rust Belt city. That, for decades, it was built upon, in many ways, the automotive industry. And a lot of the industry, so there's a lot of manufacturing, there's a lot of health care, in many ways, that has been another source of strength in the community. But, of course, all of these shifts have occurred. And we are moving from an economy, based on what's happening in Detroit. I think, at times, Cleveland had struggled with, “What is our identity? Who are we going to become? And what is our source of strength going to be? And what does this new economy look like?” And you have a community with so much potential, and a community that has incredible riches in many, many ways, and a community that is also trying to redefine itself in some ways. And so, there's a transition. So, as you've done this work, what have you noticed? What are the struggles in doing that work? What are some of the wins that you've noticed? And what's some of the advice that you would have for others? Because this is not something unique to Cleveland, Ohio. Many places in the world and in the country of the United States are enduring those shifts as well and emerging into a economy that might be different from its roots.

Marianne Crosley  15:26 

Very true. So, our oldest program, Leadership Cleveland, graduated its first class in 1978. And, of course, Cleveland looked very different in 1978 than it does now. Yes, there were already changes on the horizon in terms of the automotive and steel industry that we were beginning to feel those effects, but we were very much a manufacturing community. We were beginning to see a slight decline in population, now we see a precipitous decline in population. And what we have experienced in the city was, in the 70s and 80s, there was a lot of white flight which left a city where there was feelings of racism and individuals not feeling that they belonged, that they mattered, a struggling educational system, and lack of growth of the economy and small businesses. And some of this was the effect of redlining. But the reason Leadership Cleveland formed in the first place is we knew that something had to be done, so how do we bring together the people who are best positioned to make it happen? And again, it's not just those who are leading the big companies, it's across sectors because we know that all voices need to be heard for change to happen. So, fast forward to today. And we appreciate that it's important to build leadership from our high school students because we want them to fall in love with this city so that they can go away to college, but we need their talents here. We want them to come here and to choose to make Cleveland their home, and continue to build on those relationships that they formed, to forge new relationships. Because once you're alum of one of our programs, it's that badge of acceptance. You can call up somebody and say, “Hey, I did this program in this year,” and you have that shared experience of being an alum of the Cleveland Leadership Center. So, in today's workforce, you can often have five generations working together, and they have to appreciate how to make that happen effectively. And again, that's what these community leadership programs do. And some of them are based in chambers, some of them are based in universities, a very few are based within a government. And many, like the Cleveland Leadership Center, are freestanding nonprofit organizations that charge tuition for their programs, that raise money from the community and from philanthropy to support initiatives. Because what we want to do is, yes, there's the programs, but if you just do a program and then leave and check the box and say, “Done, I did that. I've got that little badge that says I'm an alum,” you've missed the mark. What you want to do is stay connected with those with whom you shared the experience, you want to stay connected with the Leadership Center, and you want to stay connected and informed about what's happening in the city, the region as a whole so that you can really leverage your leadership position and your leadership skills to be an agent of change.

Scott Allen  18:40 

So, what are some observations you had about doing that work? An agent of change, what's the good, bad, and ugly that, okay, we were at this for a number of years? And there's a lot of wisdom that you bring to the experimentation that's been done, what are some of the observations that you have for listeners? Because I think it's fascinating. You have a very interesting purview and seat from which to look at, okay, where are we making some traction, and where are the opportunities that we haven't yet locked in on? Does that make sense?

Marianne Crosley  19:15 

Yeah. I think that sometimes people can hold on to the belief that positional leadership is what matters. I would argue against that, I think anyone is capable of leading. And sometimes it just takes a little encouragement, a little support, a little mentoring, but people lead in all kinds of different ways. So, often I can go to an event in our community, and someone will come up to me and say, “I am so happy I did,” name one of our programs, “This is what's happened because of it.” Just last night, I was getting in my car in a parking lot and someone came up to me who did our bridge builders program for mid-career leaders, and said, “I just have to tell you how valuable that program was. I form relationships with these individuals who have become my posse, my group that I go to when I have a challenge or when I want some inspiration. And it's not being announced yet, but I'm going to become president of the organization where I work. And it's all about the skills that you helped me to develop in this mid-career program.” Well, I didn't do it. Again, it's that learning mindset. That willingness to be vulnerable, to take risks. So, these are some of the things that happened. So, it builds better leaders within our organization, as well as individuals will make connections. And they'll lead… They'll start a festival together, they'll launch a block association together, they'll do a major conference together, they'll transform our public square in Cleveland. The ideas for the transformation of public square; the development of Gateway, which has become the home to our Cleveland guardians and our Cleveland Cavaliers; and all the businesses and retail establishments and entertainment venues attendant to that, those all came out of ideas generated in our programs. So, it's just amazing to see. You plant the seed, you let it germinate a little bit, and it just flourishes.

Scott Allen  21:17 

So, what are some of the areas that still, “We haven't totally figured this out yet”? I think, at times, some of these programs, and literally, all leader development programs, people are very, very excited. And then how do we capture that excitement? How do we keep that momentum? What are some of the challenges that you see that we haven't figured out quite yet? And again, I don't think this is probably anything unique to Cleveland. You're an observer of human behavior, and so what are some of those human behaviors that, gosh, if we could move the needle on this, we could probably get so much further, so much faster? You have, again, such a unique purview in that.

Marianne Crosley  21:58 

So there's a couple of things. You need to tap into the passions of individual. Not everyone is going to be passionate about education. Not everyone is going to be willing to roll up their sleeves to address a struggling education system. Some people will, others are going to be passionate about economic development. Others are going to be passionate about how are we taking care of our elderly, maternal, and infant mortality. So, it's offering that smorgasbord of opportunities, if you will, which are challenges, and what resonates with you. And then, how can we as an organization connect you with others who share that passion so you can appreciate where you have intersections, who else you can pull in, and then how you can make a difference. Much easier said than done because you are always fighting for people's time. It takes time to want to invest, to affect change. That's time away from your work, that's time away from your family, that's time away from any other community commitments that you may have. So, we have to create a sense of urgency and elevate the need that these challenges must be addressed immediately, and you are the people to do it, and the time is now, and the call is now so let's go forward. We know that, for change to happen, there have to be two things present: You have to provide structure and you have to provide accountability. So, oftentimes, we'll say you need to be self-motivated and self-organized and go forward. That's great, but that's not human nature. That's not how individuals will function. So, providing them with the structure, and then the expectations for their behavior to drive change so that they're accountable to others in the group, or those who have organized the group, so that they will feel a failing if they don't deliver. Sometimes, what I'll see is people will disengage, feel guilty, and the easiest way to deal with guilt is not to deal with it. Just to ignore it, and not go back, and not engage, and not change. So, it's always tapping into people, pulling them in. Again, it goes back to the relationships. If I ask you to do something and you trust me, and you believe in me, and we have that relationship, you're going to find a way to get to yes, and then I'm going to hold you accountable to delivering on that yes.

Scott Allen  24:25 

What else? What else did you see?

Marianne Crosley  24:28 

We have witnessed a seismic change in leadership in Cleveland. And it's in government, it's in big business, it's in professional service firms, it's in health care, it's in universities, it's in nonprofits. Just a seismic change where folks like me, who are that baby boomer generation, are appreciating that it's time to pass the baton. And so, I think it's an exciting time because there's a whole crop of newer leaders coming up who approach things differently. Hopefully, they’ll be less risk-averse and be willing to work more collaboratively. My hope is that they can shed egos and arrogance because I think those are the two things that get in the way of allowing leaders to move forward, organizations to move forward, and communities to move forward. If you're more concerned about how you will appear, about your reputation, you've lost sight of driving for the larger goal, which goes back to that African proverb, “If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.” And that's the mindset that people have to have to really affect change. So, I'm very hopeful with the change in leadership, with what we're seeing on the horizon that will happen.

Scott Allen  25:47 

Talk a little bit about shedding ego and arrogance. Again, a human condition. This is not anything unique to Northeast Ohio, but talk about how that can show up. What are ways in which that shows up? Because I think it's incredibly well-phrased, and there's a lot of wisdom in that statement.

Marianne Crosley  26:08 

What I will often see is when we pull together individuals because we want to start a new initiative, or we want to have a new approach to economic development, or we want to look at how we're addressing issues surrounding diversity, equity and inclusion, we invite all voices to the table. Two things happen when you do that: One, in our community, we often have a tendency to set that table so large that voices aren't heard, that voices are lost, that people are reticent to have their voice shared because they'll be judged. You can get a lot more done more effectively starting with a core group. And then, once you can set the agenda, establish the values, establish the goals, then create those radiating circles of pulling more people, of pulling more voices in. When you bring those tables together, ideally, there should not be someone who's in charge. Because if there's one person who's in charge at the outset who thinks because they called the question, that they can set the agenda, that they can drive the agenda, that's where the ego is coming in and the arrogance. That they have a superior knowledge, a superior wisdom, superior access to what we can do to really drive change. It has to be approached with the humility, and after individuals have united around whatever the challenge is, then figure out who's going to drive this? How are we going to lead this? So that your focus is always on the outcome and not on the individuals and who's getting the credit. Does that make sense? 

Scott Allen  27:52 

It does. It does, 100%. I recall, and maybe I'm putting you on the spot here, but Pittsburgh had done such a wonderful job of transforming itself. If I remember correctly, Marianne, it was a smaller group that was the spark of that. Was that accurate? Am I remembering that correctly? 

Marianne Crosley  28:11 

Of course, you're remembering that correctly, Scott. So, Pittsburgh had, and this goes back two years ago, they had a table of 12. And this group met with frequency, and I can't remember, quite frankly, if it was once a month or every other week, but to really talk about the community issues. And they were not setting the agenda, but they were just elevating, “What are we hearing? What's going on?” And then dispatching one another, tapping into their networks, “Okay, how are we going to address this?” It drove great community change in Pittsburgh, and Pittsburgh did a much better job rebounding from the industrial air than in Cleveland. We were a little slower to get out of the gate. And I don't know if it was because of that leadership that they tapped in the table of 12. Certainly, they had strong government leadership, they had strong university leadership that were collaborating, but going back to the key word being collaboration. Surrendering that ego, shedding the arrogance, and embracing humility, and being able to listen and learn from others.

Scott Allen  29:22 

Yeah. Well, and that, again, of the four pillars, at least in the Cleveland Leadership Center, in CLC, civic understanding, relationship building, collaborative leadership, civic readiness, right? 

Marianne Crosley  29:34

Exactly. 

Scott Allen  29:36

And that shedding ego and arrogance and stepping into the space with a little bit of humility. And I loved your phrasing also about it can be easy then to lose sight of the larger perspective of what we're actually trying to accomplish, what we're doing here. And that requires really strong leadership to remind human beings of that. To reorient us back into why we're here, what we're doing. And keeping focused on that mission because we're time-starved, there's a lot of competing commitments. But we're moving back towards having our eye on, “This is what we're trying to accomplish,” and that takes strong leadership to do that.

Marianne Crosley  30:16 

Yeah, it does. And I think as individuals, humans are always searching for purpose. You need to wake up every day with that sense of purpose and that sense of belonging, and that's what we want to tap into. What is within you, that call to purpose, and how do we feel that? We know that people want to be enriched, they want to find a way to serve, to contribute positively, and this is, again, leaders at all level. Anybody can be a leader.

Scott Allen  30:45 

Okay. So, let's go there for a moment. This is another reason I have great respect for you, waking up in the morning and having purpose. You've closed this chapter, but you have a very clear vision of where you'd like to spend your time. And so, would you talk a little bit about that?

Marianne Crosley  31:05 

Sure. So, I would advise anyone who's contemplating retirement, there are so many things you need to be prepared for and one is to have a plan because you suddenly go from running at 110 miles an hour to 5…

Scott Allen  31:21 

“Only two emails today, what's going on?”

Marianne Crosley  31:25 

“I've been canceled.” And I think we need to realize people are retiring, and they're still looking at a good 20 years of an active vibrant life ahead of them. Making sure that they have that sense of purpose, I think it's critical. For me, we did a celebration of the 45th anniversary of our Leadership Cleveland program a year ago. I did a lot of talking to folks in the community. If we were to bring together all these people who participated in Leadership Cleveland across 45 years and asked them to do something, what would that look like? What would it do? So, this is the form that it took: We did a day-long summit and had five different tracks. So, if you attended, you chose one of those five different tracks to learn and then to experience. So, in the morning, there were learning sessions of folks in the community who are deep into this work. In the afternoon, you were out, boots on the ground, seeing how it's being implemented in the community. And the five different areas that we looked at informed by talking to people who work in these spaces in Cleveland, and what are the glaring needs that we can address so that we can stop being the most impoverished city in America, first or second every year. So, they were safe and affordable housing; food security; economic mobility, giving people jobs that really create a sustaining wage; healthy neighborhoods, and that's everything from tree canopies to lead safe; and finally, gun violence. Folks spent the day doing a deep dive in these areas. At the end of the day, there was so much enthusiasm, individuals raising their hands saying, “Count me in. I want to be a part of the change, tell me how I can make a difference.” And so, what I want to do now is activate the working groups that emerged out of that summit, and sequentially launch each of these initiatives. The first one we're going to start is safe and affordable housing. If you don't have a home, if you don't have a place that's safe where you can exist, it's really hard to have a job, it's really hard to go to school, it's really hard to have good relationships. So, we're going to start with that. And then, marshall folks, and again, about 20, maximum 25 folks to come together. Dispatch them to map what the system looks like because we know that the system needs to be disrupted a little bit, it needs to be changed. And then we're going to look at what are other cities doing. We're not the only city facing these huge challenges, so what can we steal and replicate from other areas? Folks who have done this innovatively before us, they did the hard work, they made the mistakes, so now we'll take what they did and apply it here. So, the goal is for these working groups -- and it's not going to happen overnight, these problems didn't occur overnight -- to come up with, I'll call it the path, the plan, the white paper for, “Here's the change that needs to happen, and here's where we need to go so that, a generation from now, it will look very different. We won't be worrying about these issues to the extent that we are today. That's the plan. We'll see how it goes, wish me well. 

Scott Allen  35:00 

(Laughs) Well, again, so much respect and a very, very clear vision of how you want to make a difference in the community. And such a beautiful example of civic understanding, you'll be tapping into those relationships you've spent decades building. There's a collaborative spirit to this and sparking that civic readiness. These are individuals who are passionate and are ready to help make a difference. I imagine there's a number of players in the community, and how do we convene, create a space, get some synergy? And getting people moving and rowing in the same direction, in some cases. I think, in some cases, that's a piece of the work. Is that accurate?

Marianne Crosley  35:41 

Yes. You have to have that shared understanding, and then build upon that well.

Scott Allen  35:47 

Well, Marianne, thank you so much. You've taken us on a wonderful tour and I hope listeners have a better understanding of the Association of Leadership programs. I will put a link to their website in the show notes so you can access that. There's likely something happening in your community, your county, your state, and so that's just a wonderful resource to tap into and learn more about. And then, of course, Marianne, just the wisdom you have shared about the work that you've been engaged in. The role modeling of, “This chapter has closed, here's where I'm headed next. This is where I'm going to orient how I think about the future,” I think there's just so many lessons in this episode. Now, I always close out by asking what you've been listening to, or streaming, or reading. What's caught your attention lately? It could have something to do with what we've just discussed. You could just say, “You know what? I've been watching ‘The Old Man’ on [Inaudible 36:43]. 

(Laughter)

Scott Allen  36:45

What's caught your attention that may be of interest to listeners?

Marianne Crosley  36:49 

So, I'll share one thought about what has caught my attention, and then what I'm about to dive into. I have had the absolute privilege over the course of the past two weeks of hearing from some amazing women leaders. So, first, Ketanji Brown Jackson, and I'm about to dive into her book, ‘Lovely One,’ and really look forward to that. And then, I also had the absolute gift of moderating a panel of two women who were the first female leaders in the Federal Reserve Bank System. Karen Horn, who was the first woman, who, interestingly, secured the job when she was seven months pregnant.

Scott Allen  37:33

Wow.

Marianne Crosley  37:35

That was back in 1983. And Jackie Woods, who was the first female leader of a major utility company. And the fourth woman who led the Federal Reserve Bank here in Cleveland is Sandy Pianalto. So, what I learned from listening to each of those four women is that they approached their ambition, their drive, their purpose, their passion, without a thought about the fact that they were women. They looked at themselves as individuals who were skilled, who had the leadership ability and were going to accomplish their goals. And I thought that was an inspiration because, so often, we have individuals who put their gender, their race, their ethnicity, their nationality, first, and I was just really struck by these women who achieved so much decades ago, in some instances, Ketanji Brown Jackson more recently, but thought about it just in the context of me as an individual leader. So, I was surprised to hear that from them. So, really looking forward to diving into Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's book.

Scott Allen  38:43 

We both have great admiration for June Ryan, Rear Admiral in the Coast Guard. And she would say a similar thing. She said, “I never even thought about it, I just did my best and it just barreled forward.” So she almost is… It's interesting. I don't want to speak for her, I probably shouldn't speak for her, Rear Admiral.

Marianne Crosley  39:02 

She might correct you.

Scott Allen  39:04 

I will pause there. But that had always been my impression. It's so very, very, very interesting. Marianne, thank you so much for joining me today, I really, really appreciate it. Thank you for the incredible work that you do. Thanks for sharing your wisdom. I will place resources in the show notes. So, listeners, if you'd like to connect with Marianne on LinkedIn, you can do so.

Marianne Crosley  39:27 

Thank you so much. This was great fun. Love talking about leadership, community leadership, what the Cleveland Leadership Center has done. And always happy to help anybody else build something in their own community.

Scott Allen  39:41 

Be well, take care!

Marianne Crosley  39:43

Thank you.
 

[End of Recording]