Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders with Scott Allen

Peter Moustakerski - Seeing Around Corners

• Scott J. Allen • Season 1 • Episode 243

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Peter Moustakerski is CEO of Family Office Exchange (FOX), the premier resource for families managing private enterprises and family wealth across generations. For over 30 years, FOX has been recognized as the industry’s most exclusive, innovative, and influential community for peer networking and learning, and has provided independent insights, expert guidance, and practical solutions to complex problems related to family transitions and family wealth.​

Peter has spent more than 25 years as a C-level strategist and executive in various industries, including wealth management, capital markets, and technology. He is a former family office executive and FOX member, management consultant, and entrepreneur. He has served as a strategy, innovation, and growth leader for several private and public companies and founded two start-ups in New York City and China.​

Before joining FOX, Peter served as Chief Operating Officer of the family office of the founder of Bridgewater Associates, where he worked closely with the principal family members to envision and oversee the redesign of the family office strategy and day-to-day operations to better serve the family's evolving needs. Peter holds an MBA from Columbia Business School and a BS in Computer Science and Engineering from Zhejiang University in China, and is proficient in Mandarin, Russian, and Bulgarian.​

Before that, Peter was a management consultant at Booz Allen Hamilton, advising many of the world’s top C-suite leaders, and a strategy executive at UBS, leading all growth and transformation initiatives for the bank’s wealth management organization.​

Most recently, Peter was Chief Strategy Officer of News America Marketing, a former News Corp. subsidiary, where he built and led the Corporate Strategy and M&A function and led the company’s successful carve-out and sale to a private equity sponsor. 


Two Quotes From This Episode

  • "At the end of the day, if you think about time as your most valuable asset, the ultimate capital, the ultimate equalizer for all of us is time, and complexity is the enemy of time. It just eats up time and other resources."
  • “At FOX, we consider it a core value and a major part of our mission to help our members—and the entire industry—see around corners, especially when significant change is afoot.”


Resources Mentioned in This Episode

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in studying, practicing, and teaching leadership. Register for ILA's 26th Global Conference in Chicago, IL - November 7-10, 2024.


About  Scott J. Allen


My Approach to Hosting

  • The views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace your reflection, research, and exploration of the topic.

Note: Voice-to-text transcriptions are about 90% accurate, and conversations-to-text do not always translate perfectly. I include it to provide you with the spirit of the conversation.

Scott Allen  0:00  

Okay, everybody. Welcome to the Phronesis Podcast. Thank you for checking in wherever you are in the world. Today, I have Peter Moustakerski, who is the CEO of Family Office Exchange, the premier resource for families managing private enterprises and family wealth across generations. For over 30 years, Fox has been recognized as the industry's most exclusive, innovative, and influential community for peer networking and learning and has provided independent insights, expert guidance, and practical solutions to complex problems related to family transitions and family wealth. Peter has spent more than 25 years as a C-level strategist and executive across a variety of industries, including wealth management, capital markets, and technology. He is a former Family Office Executive and FOX member, management consultant, and entrepreneur. He has served as a strategy innovation and growth leader for a number of private and public companies and founded two startups in New York City and China. Prior to joining Fox, Peter served as Chief Operating Officer of the Family Office of the founder of Bridgewater Associates, where he worked closely with the principal family members to envision and oversee the redesign of the Family Office strategy, and day-to-day operations to better serve the evolving needs of the family. Peter holds an MBA from Columbia Business School and a BS in computer science and engineering from Zhejiang University in China, and is proficient in Mandarin, Russian, and Bulgarian, which Peter, you can tell, I am not. So, sir, thank you so much for being with me today. I really, really appreciate it. What else should listeners know about you before we jump into our conversation?

 

Peter Moustakerski  1:39  

Well, thank you, Scott. It's such a pleasure to be here. I am really grateful that you invited me to your excellent podcast. We covered a lot of ground, so I think the only other thing that maybe listeners would like to know, which is kind of discernible from my LinkedIn profile, is that one of my startups was a chocolate venture, and I am a certified chocolatier. So, somehow I see a connection between all these paths that you describe, including chocolatiering.

 

Scott Allen  2:12  

(Laughs) That is a very fun fact that you are a chocolatier. I love that. I absolutely love that. I was with a global organization. You may know of it, but I don't know. GGI is out of Switzerland. This is accountants and attorneys, and it's an association. And the founder brought us Lindt chocolates from Switzerland. You had to get them from Switzerland. And my kids ate them and said, “This is the best chocolate I have ever had.” I don't even think I tasted one. So, I have great respect. Just as a quick fun aside, what are some of your favorite chocolates in the world? What comes to mind for you?

 

Peter Moustakerski  2:45  

Yeah, people ask me that a lot. It's very difficult to answer that with one choice because there are too many, it depends. And once you get deep into chocolate, it's like, do you want to maximize origin and taste the cocoa? Do you want to maximize the artistry of the maker? So, I am not going to give you a single one, but I'll point to a few chocolatiers that I like and I frequent. There's a small chocolatier here in Brooklyn, in New York City, Raaka, R-A-A-K-A, that I think is very innovative. They specialize in raw chocolate and also do a lot of interesting blends and ways to ferment the cocoa in order to infuse it with other flavors, such as sherry cask or whiskey cask. You mentioned Lindt. Lindt is obviously, by now, a large multinational company, but Rodolphe Lindt has a prominent place in the history of chocolate. In fact, the main reason we have chocolate in the form of bars and kinds of modern confections is because Rodolphe Lindt forgot his chocolate-making machinery running on a Friday night, came back on a Monday, and discovered a very finely conched or ground chocolate paste, which then allowed chocolate to mold and crystallize that paste into different structures that today allow us to make bars and lollipops and other things that are molded. So, there's a lot more there than the supermarket chocolate you see.

 

Scott Allen  4:13  

I love it. I absolutely love it. Oh, that's wonderful. Well, sir, we're going to move off of chocolate for now, although it may come back to chocolate, you don't know. But you have a quote, and I absolutely love this quote, so I just want to start here. You said, “At FOX, we consider it a core value and a major part of our mission to help our members and the entire industry see around corners, especially when significant change is afoot,” and I love that phrasing - ‘afoot.’ And we are seeing significant change. We're seeing significant change from a digitization standpoint, geopolitical shifts, multi-generations in the workforce, and large factions of that generation retiring. We see work from home as a shift, conservatism around the world shifting, and democracies in decline shifting. So, we're experiencing all of these changes. They are afoot. You referenced a book called ‘The Fourth Turning Is Here,’ and we've also talked about Ray Dalio's book ‘Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order.’ And so, part of your work is helping individuals see around corners. So, I just want to start there. Let's talk about that. What are you seeing right now?

 

Peter Moustakerski  5:30  

Yeah, great question. First, I will say that I can't claim credit for the quote ‘seeing around corners.’ It's something that FOX leadership and founder Sarah Hamilton has been saying for many, many years. And so it's something that we've embraced, and continue to see a significant kind of value and purpose in providing our members, and frankly, even beyond our membership, our broader community, in our industry, and even beyond the industry. I think, again, we come at it from the standpoint of a community. The membership organization is a community, and we believe, and I personally believe, that we do need and actively search for the community for a number of reasons, but especially in the business context, there are at least two really giant value adds -- there are many smaller ones, obviously -- but one is that you find peers and people who are going through similar things that you are. And especially the more senior you are or maybe how complex your situation is, it's hard to find those peers. It's hard to find people around you, even your closest colleagues or even family members are not able to provide that sounding board or allow you to be sort of fully, fully, fully honest about what's going on and what's maybe troubling you or where things are headed. And so, being able to find a community of peers that are going through something very similar, or have gone through something very similar, who have no agenda other than just to share the human experience and are generous enough to offer their learning. I think that's a very, very important fundamental reason why we seek community, and certainly, in the business context of community. I think the second thing is to then learn, and learn not just for the academic purpose of knowing what happened in the past or where we are today, but really learn for the business and the personal individual purpose of knowing where things are headed so we can plan and run our life and business in the best possible way. And it's that second sort of pillar of value that communities, business communities, membership organizations, and other ad hoc communities provide that we refer to when we talk about seeing around corners. And that's a really good way to describe the kind of very relevant, almost humble advice because it's not academic, it's not necessarily academic, it's not necessarily only quantitative the way predictions and kind of extrapolations are made in other places, other aspects of life, or in business, which are all valid ways to extrapolate and predict. But being able to be surrounded by people who are thinking and experiencing your context, your industry, your situation, and contemplating the future is, I think, a very powerful way to see, combined with all these quantitative predictions and tools, that obviously, technology and modern science, it gives us a way to sort of look beyond what's visible, kind of around the corner, and predict where things are headed so that we can be best prepared well.

 

Scott Allen  8:37  

Well, I really like your framing of ‘in the beginning,’ especially since it's about creating a community. We can create a community of people who have a level of trust where we can come together and learn. Because, as we both know, leadership can be incredibly lonely. You don't necessarily feel like you have some of that community of peers who are experiencing, who are questioning, who are wondering what you're wondering. So, talk about some ways to create that community. I think that's great. 

 

Peter Moustakerski  9:06  

Well, again, we specialize in our corner of the financial services universe, and we specialize in creating a very unique community that has been around for 35 years and it's been recognized by family offices, family members, family office executives, and external advisors as a really safe, intellectually honest, and objective place to come and share and gain insights and gain this sort of feeling and benefit of the community. I'm sure there are lots of ways for one to create a community. Again, I'm more focused on the context in which we, as FOX, have been doing this; the most important thing, I believe, is for the people founding the community or the people running the community to have a very clear and strongly articulated value system so that members or potential members can look at that and identify with kind of the ethos and the culture of this community, and make an informed choice. Then, of course, as important, or maybe even ten times more important, is to live that value system over time so that the community and its members can speak for itself, so to speak. So, most of the new members we get at FOX are word-of-mouth recommendations and referrals. We hardly do any marketing in the traditional sense of the word; it's almost inappropriate in the space that we are in. And so, a strong reputation and a strong referral and recommendation by your existing membership, I think, is really, really important because that is proof to anyone considering the community that it is for real, that it is appropriate for them, and it stands for what it says it stands. And then, of course, memberships and communities, they’re a two-way street, maybe even multi-directional streets. We are, obviously, a business, and our members pay us to enjoy the benefits of community, but the proposition is a multi-direction community; the members are just as important and contribute as much to the community, and so, therefore, our job is to ensure that they are comfortable inside it, and it's made easy for them to contribute because a community only serving information or services top-down is not really a community. A community is a bottom-up, actively engaged collection of people and entities that are peer-to-peer. They care about their peer relationships. They want to learn from their peer relationships. They want to contribute. And this is why I like the word ‘generosity’ in communities. Communities are really founded and thrive on the spirit of generosity, sharing, and giving as much as they are able to offer benefits for members to take.

 

Scott Allen  11:46  

I like that. It reminds me of a book called ‘The Go-Giver.’ I'll put a link to that in the show notes. But is there a generosity or spirit of generosity as I enter into not only the community,  take and learn, but also to give and contribute to that community? So, what are some of the conversations that you're hearing when it comes to -- again, let's go macro right now. What are some of the contextual shifts that are on your radar right now, that you're thinking about, that people are talking about, maybe even some things that people are seeing that the general public isn't seeing yet? We could try and get there? But what you are hearing is kind of on people's minds right now.

 

Peter Moustakerski  12:26  

Yeah. We are a community of family offices and family office professionals, or, I would say, family wealth professionals because sometimes there is no family office, but there's still the family, the enterprise, and all the needs and activities associated with it. And so, most of our conversations, our thought leadership, and our content are focused on topics that impact the family office family wealth community. These are families that have either founded, run, or sold a significant business and, therefore, are blessed to have the resources and the purpose to impact their communities and the world in general in a positive way. So it is, in a way, a very consequential corner of the world of capital because, collectively, families as family business owners and family foundation patrons, etc, families and family capital, the capital they own and are endowed with, which, by the way, goes way beyond just financial money capital. It goes to their intellectual capital, their knowledge, their human capital, all the people and their creativity they have, their spiritual capital, the values they bring to society and acting on those values as families, and the social capital, all the connections, and social networks that they have. So, collectively, all of that actually endows these families with a lot of influence and power, which, if channeled, if enabled, and realized in the best possible way, can be, we believe, even more powerful than some of the other giant pools of capital, such as Wall Street firms and public firms, private equity firms, government capital, non-profit capital, academic capital, etc. So, families are a very important part of the world, although they are more disconnected and disaggregated than these other forms of capital, which is one of the main reasons we exist, is to try and pull those resources closer together and allow them to exercise the transformative impact of the capital. So, with that preamble, obviously, when you look at it this way, the scale and scope of issues and impact that enterprise families can have on the world is quite significant. And therefore, the topics that are being talked about, certainly, there are a lot of day-to-day topics that family offices, family wealth organizations, and service providers are preoccupied with: managing the financial capital, optimizing the cost of capital and its deployment, making sure that these families and their resources, including their people, are protected and able to succeed, and to be happy in their lives, and then obviously ensuring that the communities they are in thrive and develop in the best possible way because that's what families generally care about. That's one thing that sets apart family capital is that families who have a name, who have a face, who have fathers, mothers, children, and grandfathers, who are very well known in the community, really do care about impact and their communities. If I were to kind of pick some of the top themes, one major theme is around impact. All of our families that we work with and are aware of, of course, they're very focused on the more tactical, if I should say, objectives of maximizing return on capital or making their businesses successful, etc. But, on a more strategic level, what they're really focused on, and driven by, and increasingly so as the new generation step in and bring their own value system, what they're really focused on is how can they make the best, strongest, positive impact on their communities, on their own family members, but certainly, their broader communities in the world in general. So, the topic of impact, which, by the way, is not just ESG and the way it's been framed in these other pools of capital that are very narrow and sub-optimal, and frankly, don't work very well for true impact investors. But the idea of how can we use all this great capital that we've been endowed with, we've been blessed with these resources, how can we best use them for our communities and to create a better world, save the planet, and all these other things that they care about and are concerned that are potentially headed in the wrong direction currently. Whether you think about it, politically, the geopolitics of kind of global relations, or environmentally in terms of what's happening to the planet, and any other aspects that are from a value system important to them, I would say, again, this is not the full list of themes, but I would say probably the number one theme that I would distill at the top of the pyramid is about impact and purpose.

 

Scott Allen  17:23  

Yeah. And so that's just really clarifying how we want to enter. Again, it could be any number of different ways that we're defining or thinking about impact, but that's a lot of is about the conversation impact. 

 

Peter Moustakerski  17:38  

Yeah. I would say a lot of the conversation, especially as they look out from the family system into the broader world, that their enterprises, their foundations, their various businesses or other entities that they run or own, they look at from the family out, that's probably the most important thing, is how do we ensure that the world we're in is better and our children and grandchildren, this is what every family really wants, except you're now looking at a community of families that have resources that could have a global impact. And so they too want a better world for their children and communities, and I think that's number one. I think if you turn around and say, as they look inward, I would say one of the most important things, which, again, gets neglected because the wealth management profession gets a little bit too focused on the technical, quantitative financial metrics. And, of course, they're easy to measure, and they're standardized, and we've been added for over 100, 200. However, you want to measure it for quite a few of one aspect of the family years, but they only take care of the family capital. And so, I would say the second big theme is really taking the family and putting it in the middle of everything, at the top of everything. So, really, I think there is a big realization, both within families and in the family wealth, family office space, that it's a bit back to basics. Like with the family, it is the most important thing. Yes, the expertise that the family is surrounded by and is using is really important, but it's kind of table stakes now. Everybody understands investments and insurance, and everyone can advise whether you hire them inside your family office or find the right employee externally as an external advisor from another firm. But what you have to ensure, and what you're really doing all this for, is the happiness, well-being, and fulfillment of the family members. And if you lose track of that overarching objective, you can do a lot of expensive, complicated, painful work that will not help the family and, in some cases, could hurt the family. And so, I think the other major theme, more inward-looking, is making sure that when we say wealth management, and we do all these activities, we really are equating wealth with well-being, not with just money, and enabling family members across generations. And, by the way, we find ourselves in a world where we have five active generations together, working in the family, in the workplace in general, but certainly in the families that we work with. And so, you've got 20-year-olds and 85-year-olds active, contributing, leading, or needing something from the family, the family system, the family enterprise. And so, making sure that all of these constituents are thought about, taken care of, and happy and fulfilled is the other, I would say, mega topic in our world. And, again, there are lots of helicopters, so we're going to wait for that. New York City for you. So, there are obviously other topics under that that become more specific, especially as you look at the different forms of capital, financial, human and we can get more granular, but those, to me, are the two macro, strategic kinds of topics, needs, things that unify everyone in our community when it comes to big things on their minds. 

 

Scott Allen  21:14  

Yeah. Okay, so we have an impact and purpose externally looking. How do we want to make an impact, or what is our purpose as we look external? And then well being internal, and that's going to take leadership. And you probably have some individuals who lead in their families really, really well. And you probably have some individuals who built a really big business, but they struggle to lead. Are there themes that you see? What are some commonalities of families? Let's stick with the internal ones right now. What are some commonalities of families doing that work well?

 

Peter Moustakerski  21:49  

Yeah. Well, I think the most important first step is to realize that this work has to be done. And that it is not just about the business, the taxes, or the investment portfolio performance; there is a larger, much more important set of objectives. And this does take leadership. This point has to be driven home by family leadership, as we call it now, generation, the generation that leads the enterprise. And it doesn't always happen. There are some families that are very business-centric, and the business is essentially the life of the family, and maybe that's okay. And if that makes everyone happy and fulfilled, that probably is the fine formula for that moment in time, that stage of the family's life. But usually, as families, multi-generational enterprises, business families, and investment families progress through the generations and through their journey and mature and become more complex with more people involved, it takes more leadership to state the objectives and the values and to say this is the most important thing. So, I would say the first success factor would be for the leadership of the family to recognize that the well-being, happiness, fulfillment, and inclusion of the family members that make up the family system is the most important thing. It has to be an actively managed objective, something you have to somehow measure and track, and different initiatives and activities that serve that. I would say the second thing that is a success factor is the realization and the comfort that this first objective we mentioned is very complex, difficult, and different from what most families and business people who are successful in business were actually endowed and wired to solve. It's usually more psychological, human, and qualitative in nature. It is not the strength of the people who succeed in building big, successful, scaled-up businesses that go public, etc. And so, to realize that you're going to need a lot of help from a lot of people who have very different skill sets and knowledge than you do as someone who built, let's say, a very successful telecom business or a food business, or whatnot, and to recognize that these qualitative factors and the qualitative expertise of human psychology, education, well-being, health are just as important as the tax, finance, accounting, technology that everyone understands and invests very heavily in. Then, spend your time and resources accordingly to engage these qualitative disciplines to ensure that the human well-being of your family system and the family members within it is maximized. And then, I would say, the final thing I would mention is to realize that this has to be run like an ongoing multi-generational initiative, with the engagement of everyone involved, even those that might be a little disengaged or might not be necessary, at first glance, equipped with to support this process. So you might have people who are in the arts on other aspects of the family, and you think, well, how can they help a financial family transformation? But the truth is, everyone in the family system has needs and perspectives. And when it comes to the business of the family, so to speak -- not the business of the business, the business of the portfolio, or even the business of the philanthropic foundation -- when it comes to the business of the family, it is kind of like everyone or no one, and you really cannot exclude any meaningful participants in the family, or you will be, most likely, setting yourself up for limited success or for failure. So those are the three things I would highlight. 

 

Scott Allen  25:45  

Well, it's so interesting, Peter. From a leadership standpoint, what comes to mind for me is, perhaps, what got this individual, or individuals, to where they are. Maybe it's Lindt, and they've developed a chocolate empire. And, in that context of an organization, I can be a little bit more command and control; I am the boss, et cetera, et cetera. And from what you're just saying, for this work to actually really be sustainable, it's a family system, and we need to engage others. Therefore, the work is different, and the style of leadership needs to be different within the context of the family. And then, what I also heard kind of embedded in your comments was that this requires design, just like so many other things require design. If you don't design it, whatever shows up is going to show up, and that's oftentimes not the best result. And so, is there forethought? Is there insight? Is there proactivity? And is there some expertise to help do that work? But as you know better than anyone, family systems are complex. 

 

Peter Moustakerski  26:49

Absolutely. 

 

Scott Allen  26:50

We have to do our best to design that. Whether it's well-adjusted children in that context, well-adjusted happy relationships in the context, requires some design, and that's difficult work.

 

Peter Moustakerski  27:00  

If I could sort of point the audience's attention to one concept that probably unifies every family, every business, every family office, or wealth management organization, especially as we kind of look more towards the ultra-high net worth end of the spectrum is the concept of complexity. Complexity is exploding for a number of reasons. We have more people, more generations, more value systems. They want to do more things with their providers or their resources. They want to do it now versus some time later. And they want to do it globally, etc, etc. So, complexity is a really important concept to focus on, and then almost make it… It's not the only concept, but let's go through the intellectual exercise to say, if you just had to focus on complexity for a second, what would your strategy look like? So, if you say complexity is the main thing that is driving what we can do, how we can do it, how we're making decisions, how we're using resources, how we're using our time. And then, if we want to be intentional about it, do we allow complexity? Do we minimize complexity? Do we decide that some aspects of complexity are going to be done in-house in a strategic way with a lot of resources, and other aspects of complexity are going to be just outsourced and used in an off-the-shelf kind of way? I think if you take that concept of complexity and ask yourself, “How do I deal? Where does complexity come from in my context?” In families, it could be just how many generations you're serving or how many jurisdictions you are operating in. How many tax returns are you dealing with? How big is the portfolio? How much into non-public investments that are less liquid and less structured than just regular stocks and bonds? How much of the portfolio is in that? Et cetera, et cetera. How many people do I have in the office? And then, ask yourself what sources of complexity are natural and needed there. This is just how the family is. And what are sources of complexity that are self-inflicted or you have control over? And then, really ask yourself, do I really need to cause this complexity to escalate by, let's say, saying, “Oh, we should hire this person in-house, and let's add another private equity investment specialist because we want to do direct deals or something like that”? With that, you're internalizing a lot more complexity, eventually, cost, time, and resources. So, the question becomes, how do I manage complexity both in a reactive way, like complexity that is unavoidable, and in a proactive way, complexity that's self-inflicted or self-decided? And then really formulating a strategy. At the end of the day, if you think about time as your most valuable asset, the ultimate capital, the ultimate equalizer for all of us is time, and complexity is the enemy of time. It just eats up time and other resources. And so, in my view, managing complexity and thinking about the ultimate resource that you're dedicating time to, although there are money and other resources that also pay for complexity, by the way, is one way to simplify a very complex world, no pun intended, and to focus on a few things you can maybe tackle strategically. And so, we talk a lot about complexity, both operationally, but also from the standpoint of human systems, organizational systems, and then design choices to service these systems, or these businesses, portfolios, whatnot. 

 

Scott Allen  30:49  

I love that phrasing ‘design choices.’ Again, there's some forethought; there's some intentionality behind it. And I loved your phrasing, ‘Complexity is the enemy of time.’ Well, as we begin to wind down our time, is there anything else on your mind right now that you're kind of seeing as a trend or something that, “From a leadership perspective, I find it absolutely fascinating”? So, does anything else come to mind before we begin to wind down?

 

Peter Moustakerski  31:15  

Well, you mentioned the two books about the kind of macrocycles that some great thought leaders like Ray Dalio and Neil Howe have put out there, and I highly recommend both of them. They're completely independent, yet they land on a very similar, maybe the same single concept described by two people independently, which is that humanity, and especially societies, history of humanity go through cycles. Very discernible, maybe even predictable, back to the concept of seeing around corners, cycles that are… And, what I found really interesting and revelational in both those books, especially Neil Howe’s book, is that the cycles are composed of both the historical context which society finds itself, and usually, that's how cycles in historical books and textbooks and analysis are described in terms of what's happening in that period of time, what context we are economically, politically; war, growth, peace, etc. But then there's a separate dimension that interacts with that and actually changes. It's like there are two drivers of the cycle. The second thing is the generations that are being born, that grow up, and then, eventually, lead and shape the society and the socioeconomic order. And so, I think what was really interesting and very impactful for me was to try and understand what were the ingredients of every phase of the world order, whether described by Ray Dalio or Neil Howe as he describes the seculum and ancient concept that comes from Roman societies. And then, the best thing that actually happened as I read these books is the fact that few of us realize, or allow ourselves to realize, that the cycle will turn. It doesn't matter how good or bad we feel right now about the trajectory of things; it will turn. And with some of the tools in these books, you can almost predict when, roughly, it will turn. You can predict how. Hopefully, it's not a war or something terrible that happens, but there will be some kind of cathartic event that causes the cycle to turn. By both thought leaders’ accounts, we're in the last, very last phases of a global cycle, which will be reset in some time. And so, what this does for me is it gives me hope. However, you’re feeling right now, if you feel bad about the environment, about politics, about wars and whatnot, or economics, there is a cycle that will be turned. It will be turned by the generation that is currently stepping in as a rising Gen, mostly millennials, to use the American kind of generational terms, millennials and maybe older Gen Zs who will be placed in that leadership position to figure out what's going to be the value system and the makeup of that news cycle that we launch, inevitably, in the next 10 to 20 years. And it really causes those of us with slightly salt and pepper beards, like you and me, to think about what our role will be as elders of this new cycle, and what value systems and knowledge we will need to impart on the future of the world that we are going to inevitably see and witness in the coming one or two decades. 

 

Scott Allen  34:44  

Well, I've read both. And, to your point, they're both incredible reads and important perspectives. You may not agree with everything, but I think, again, they're very, very important perspectives to be aware of, and there's some very compelling content in each of those books. I'll put links to those in the show notes. But I think it's also a piece of us staying open to and staying aware of the different perspectives and the different kinds of signals out there that are providing us with clues. Because I think that's incredibly important. If BRICKS is talking about creating its own currency, well, that's a pretty significant shift. We could get into a long conversation about that, but it's very, very fascinating, and I love both of those books. I'll put links to those in the show notes. Now, speaking of resources and books, I always kind of wind down these conversations by asking the guest what's caught your attention in recent times. What have you been reading? What have you been listening to? What have you been streaming? It could have something to do with what we've just discussed; it could have nothing to do with what we've just discussed. But what's caught your attention? I had a guest recently say, “I'm watching Bridgerton,” so it doesn't have to be anything super profound.

 

Peter Moustakerski  35:57  

Yeah, good question.

 

Scott Allen  35:59  

It could be a paper or an article. It could be a book, it could be a show, it could be a TED talk. It really could be anything that's kind of caught your attention or that you're reflecting on.

 

Peter Moustakerski  36:10  

Definitely, the two books we talked about have been something that's reshaped and refocused the way I think about the moment in time we are. I find myself reading a lot more about psychology in the human mind and the human soul and a lot less about technical topics. I'm currently rereading ‘Thinking Fast and Slow,’ for example. And I find it a great resource, especially as we talk about the importance of the qualitative side of success and well-being. I'm definitely following all kinds of health and wellness discoveries and science because I think, again, the ultimate objective would be wellness and time put together so we live long and in a good and happy way. Yeah, I think those are some of the resources that come to mind immediately. 

 

Scott Allen  37:06  

Well, the last one you said reminded me of David Sinclair's ‘Lifespan.’ How do we increase human healthspan and lifespan? And, for listeners, not to mention competing podcasts? But that's an incredible podcast. If you want to have your mind blown a little bit, listen to David Sinclair's Lifespan. I believe it was about eight episodes or something like that, and it is just an incredible book as well. But, yeah, that literally changes everything if we're living in a healthy way till 120 or 140. You know, marriage, like, “Till death do us part.” For real? Because that changes every institution.

 

Peter Moustakerski  37:46  

Well, and if you think five generations living together in a family system is complex, imagine when it gets to seven or eight, that will have to rethink everything. And I think one of the key things that is coming up also is, and I mentioned that you and I, thinking about our role as elders, I think what this is causing us to think is think more intentionally about the role of elders. We can sort of assume that when they get to 65, they will just go away and go somewhere to retire and play golf, but I think that's not what's going to be happening. And as lifespan continues to increase, and people are healthy and active, what are the roles and how do we interact when we are way into our 60s, 70s, and 80s, when there are people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s who also want to claim their kind of role and place in the world, in the enterprise, in the family, etc? So, I think that's going to be an increasing conundrum. 

 

Scott Allen  38:39  

Well, you know what? I saw ‘The Rolling Stones’ on Saturday night, and Mick Jagger was strutting around at 80 like he was 45. It's a thing. It's a thing for sure. (Laughs)

 

Peter Moustakerski  38:52  

Yeah. Lucky for him, he doesn't have to think about a succession plan. But think about how a family business or a family enterprise where the family leader is strutting around at 85, or whatnot, and you've got several generations behind, and you wonder, “Why are they not engaged?” So, those are the kinds of things we'll have to think about. 

 

Scott Allen  39:13  

Well, sir, thank you so much for the conversation. Really, really appreciate your time today. There'll be a bunch of links in the show notes, you all, for you to access. And thank you for your good work. Appreciate it.

 

Peter Moustakerski  39:23  

Thank you, Scott. It's a real pleasure to be here. Appreciate you inviting me.

 

 

[End Of Recording]