Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders with Scott J. Allen

Christina Helena - Why Did You Just Have That Thought?

• Scott J. Allen • Season 1 • Episode 236

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Christina Helena is a speaker, playwright/performer, and founder of My Scar is Sexy, based in New York City. As one of the youngest pancreatic cancer survivors with a thirteen-inch scar across her abdomen, she is redefining the stigma behind trauma and pain with one simple thought: “Your scar is the sexiest thing about you.” Most recently, Goalcast featured Christina’s talk, “My Scar is Sexy,” on mental health, and overcoming adversity received over 10 million views.

Her story is currently in development as an off-Broadway, autobiographical solo show entitled SCAR directed by the award-winning director Larry Moss. Her TEDx talk, “Dear Unresolved Soul, It’s Not Death You Fear, It’s Life,” is about facing mortality and how death is the greatest catalyst to discovering the authentic self.

A Quote From This Episode

  • "It took me many years of just asking myself, 'Why did you have that thought?' Then, again, 'Why did you have that thought?' And then, 'Why did you have that answer, and why that thought?'"


Resources Mentioned in This Episode


About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in studying, practicing, and teaching leadership. Register for ILA's 26th Global Conference in Chicago, IL - November 7-10, 2024.


About  Scott J. Allen


My Approach to Hosting

  • The views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace your reflection, research, and exploration of the topic.


Note: Voice-to-text transcriptions are about 90% accurate, and conversations-to-text do not always translate perfectly. I include it to provide you with the spirit of the conversation.

Scott Allen  0:00 

Okay, everybody, welcome to the Phronesis podcast. Thank you so much for checking in wherever you are in the world. It's a special day for a couple of reasons. First, I have Christina. I'm going to introduce you to her in a second. Second, I'm recording from outside. This is only the second time, Christina, I've recorded from the outside, so who knows what's going to happen? Someone might start mowing the lawn, we don't know. We're going to hear some birds. It's the best, right? 

 

Christina Helena  0:25 

Brilliant. Yes.

 

Scott Allen  0:26 

So, why be in a basement when you can be outside? And literally, it's a beautiful day here, maybe 75 degrees. So, I am excited for our conversation today. And, for listeners, I'm going to give you a quick introduction of Christina. I have Christina Helena, and she is a speaker, writer, performer, and coach based in New York City. She is redefining and modernizing the stigma behind trauma and pain with one simple thought; your scar is the sexiest thing about you. At 19 years old, she became one of the youngest pancreatic cancer survivors. And four months later, she graduated with her bachelor's degree in Communication Arts with a 13-inch scar across her abdomen. Christina knows the physical and emotional toll that our scars have on our self-worth and ability to love ourselves. Given six months to live, Christina asked herself, “What do you want more, your potential or to run away from the pain?” Christina trained at LAMDA, the London Academy of Music and Drama, where she earned a Master of Fine Arts in Classical Performance. A couple of years later, she studied philosophy and theology, earning a Master's of Science in Consciousness Studies. An aspirational force, playwright, and classically trained performer, her autobiographical solo show, ‘Scar’ is currently in development for an Off-Broadway production to be directed by the award-winning director, Larry Moss. ‘Scar’ is about the cycle of violence and the choice each individual has to become the reflection of their trauma, or the choice to discover the self. A captivating take on the soul, trauma, and mental health. Four characters, one woman, one stage. I'm going to read that again because it wasn't well done. A captivating take on the soul, trauma, and mental health. 40 characters, one woman, one stage. Most recently, Christina's talk, ‘My scar is sexy' was featured on Goalcast, receiving over 10 million views. And her TEDx talk, ‘Dear unresolved Soul, it's not death you fear, it's life,’ can be accessed in the show notes. As a highly sought-after keynote speaker on overcoming adversity, mental health, identity, resilience, and personal development, she is helping others reprogram their thoughts and identities that have been shaped by trauma. ‘My Scar is Sexy’ is about ownership of our experiences, trauma, and stories without shame. Her talks are filled with raw authenticity, truth, and passion. Christina, I am so happy that you are here with me today. Now, what's not in your bio? Oftentimes I'll say to guests, “What isn't in your bio that people should know?” But I already know this, or at least one piece of it, is that you are a woman of the world. My gosh, I love having conversations with you about travel, so maybe we start there for just a quick moment. What are a couple of spots that just bring your soul alive in the world? I know you've got a couple of examples. And then you have some travels coming up, so I'd love to hear about that. And then we'll jump in. 

 

Christina Helena  3:52 

I think the whole podcast episode is going to be on travel. That's such a challenging and such a good question, Scott. Morocco. I have to start with Morocco. My soul just blossomed. I was in Marrakech, my taxicab driver took me from the airport. I thought I spoke French, not well enough, or at least not well enough with a Moroccan dialect to be able to communicate in French; I certainly don't speak Arabic, and my taxi driver did not speak Greek or English, so it was a bit of a challenge. But I did the universal tourist thing, which is, “This is my hotel,” and pointed to it. Thinking to myself, “Of course, he knows where my hotel is. He’ll just take me there, he's a lovely man.” Well, the lovely man took me all the way to the main town square in Marrakesh but did not take me to my hotel. And he's kind of like kicking me out of the taxicab. Oh, boy, I just realized this probably doesn't sound like a really good thing to the listeners. They're like, “Wait, she's saying Marrakesh.” (Laughs) The first story is, “Get out of my car.” But yeah, that's really what happened. So, the taxicab driver drops me off in this town square, and he's like, “Yeah, it's like, right up there.” I know it's not. He just doesn't know where my hotel is, and he's just dropping me off. But I didn't flinch, I didn't get nervous. I could have, but I didn't. And I just stood there in the middle of this Medina, and I was like, “Okay, Christina, time to tap into that spiritual power here. Where is your hotel? How are you going to get there by yourself?” And, sure enough, Scott, do you know what I did? I literally just walked around and I'm in the Medina. And every time you're in a Medina, it's like you come to this crossroads, and there's like a million crossroads. And it was left or right, and I just kind of followed my intuition. I know this sounds absolutely ridiculous. I followed my intuition, I walked around for a very long time, and I ran into my hotel. I felt like I knew Marrakech. It didn't feel foreign to me, it just felt like, “Oh yeah, I've been here before.” Never been there before, but I felt like I had been there before. And it was one of the most… I don't know, I can't even think of a brilliant word to describe how I felt in Marrakesh. It was so blossoming. Every corner of it was just new, and exciting and full of culture. And I loved it. I absolutely loved it.

 

Scott Allen  6:36

And I imagine the food.

 

Christina Helena  6:38 

Oh, the food was fantastic. So good. And I love that they have rooftop bars, and everyone just hangs out on the rooftops and drinks hot mint tea. And then, if you haven't been to an Arabic country, the best part for me. It didn't happen in Marrakesh because it wasn't the first city I went to in Morocco. The first city I went to was Chefchaouen. I probably should say that again. The first city I went to was Chefchaouen. Yeah. Say that 10 times in a row, it's like a tongue twister. But it's like this little town, village, and everything's painted blue, and it was like 5:00 A.M. I probably may be wrong on the time, but around there, and all of a sudden you hear the minarets, the chanting from the mosque at 5:00 A.M. And when you hear that for the first time when you're in an Arabic country, it is the most enchanting experience because there's something about it that's almost like this lullaby. And it's like this beautiful chant. I'm used to Christian chants, but you hear something different, and then you hear it blaring through the speakers in the city simultaneously, all these mosques at the same time. Quite an experience, plus it wakes you up at 5:00 A.M. Yeah, travel is fantastic. Morocco. Go to Morocco. That's one. If you haven't been to Botswana, it's a must. I feel like everyone should go to the Delta Okavango and go to Botswana once in their life.

 

Scott Allen  8:15 

Okay. I've never spoken with someone… Oh.

 

Christina Helena  8:19 

Stunning. To experience the landscape and the relationship the people in the bush have with the animals is magical. The relationship these wild animals have with the people that live there is quite something. And I just thought it was very, very, very beautiful. I was going to promote Botswana over other countries, and I shouldn't do that because everyone should go to every Safari that they can possibly go to and experience it. And I've been on multiple safaris at this point in my life, like five. But I think I loved the experience in Botswana the most in relation to the animals, for sure. And then I'll give you a third one. 

 

Scott Allen  9:07

Yeah, please. 

 

Christina Helena  9:08

Do I do a selfish plug-in here for my own country, or… (Laughs)

 

Scott Allen  9:12 

Of course, because you helped set… No, seriously. For listeners, Christina hooked my family up with some incredible places to visit in Greece. We spent a magical evening sitting in Meteora and a couple of days actually in Meteora. And so, yes, please do the shameless plug. We ended up in Zakynthos, but not in Corfu yet.

 

Christina Helena  9:39 

I'm going to Zakynthos this summer. Super excited. 

 

Scott Allen  9:43

Really?

 

Christina Helena  9:43

Yeah. The trip is planned. If you haven't been to Greece, it's a must. And I feel it's one of those countries you should experience once a decade. So, every time you move into a new decade of your life, I feel people should go to Greece because you can have the teenage experience, and go out and party every night, all night. You can have the 22-year-old experience out till 6:00 in the morning at the clubs, and sleeping till probably 12, and then going to the beach till 5:00, and skipping dinner, and just getting drunk on Ouzo, cool. All right. Do that in your 20s. Then in your 30s, maybe you want to do something different, like something more chill, and enjoy some beautiful dinners. And, I don't know, see a museum. Yeah, they do exist in Greece. (Laughs)

 

Scott Allen  10:27 

Oh, they're incredible in Greece. 

 

Christina Helena  10:29

They are incredible. They don't get as much attention as the beaches do and the beach clubs do, but they are in Greece. And, as time goes on. And it's a kid-friendly country. I tell everyone it's a kid-friendly country. 

 

Scott Allen  10:42 

Oh, it was incredible. 

 

Christina Helena  10:42

You can take your kids everywhere. 

 

Scott Allen  10:45

Yes, yes. 

 

Christina Helena  10:46 

Do we have age limits on things? If we do, nobody knows what they are. So. what that means is you can take your kids out to the bar. It's fine. You can take them to restaurants. It's not one of those things, “Get your kids home by 10.” No. Greece is not like that. Not one bit. So, it's cool, it's flexible, it's easy, it's fun.

 

Scott Allen  11:06 

It was… Oh my gosh. It had everything because our girls were so into mythology. They had studied that in school recently, so that was fun. And so, the history and the Acropolis, of course, that was incredible. But then the beaches, and the swimming, and the blues were just incredible. And then, of course, the history and Meteora, obviously, UNESCO World Heritage site. So, it just kept giving. The food was incredible. It was affordable. I can go on and on. So, yes, I think you very much should be sure to plug your own country, and Corfu is where you grew up. 

 

Christina Helena  11:47 

It is. It is. It has gone crazy with tourism ever since that TV series came out. The Durrells - seen it on PBS?

 

Scott Allen  11:55 

I haven't. No.

 

Christina Helena  12:00 

Oh, it's so cute. About this British family who moved to Greece in the early 1900s and lived there and what that experience was like for them. But PBS decided to do a four-season series on it, and it's cute. It's just cute. But it features Corfu and its beauty in such a way that it was literally like a Disney movie booming. The next year, everybody wanted to do Durrell tours, go to the Durrell house, and go to the Durrell restaurant. It's like, “Oh my God.”

 

Scott Allen  12:29 

I'm having images of Downton Abbey with England now. Yeah. (Laughs)

 

Christina Helena  12:34 

Kinda. Yeah. Rustic, the rustic version of that.

 

Scott Allen  12:40 

Well, okay. So, not only are you a woman of the external world, you are so well traveled and you love to explore, but you are also an explorer of the internal world. And let's go there. Let's have that conversation. What's on your mind in recent times as you think about just personal growth, development? I had this fascinating conversation the other day, Christina, with a woman named Amy Elizabeth Fox, and she runs an organization called Mobius. And listeners, please check out that episode with Amy Elizabeth Fox. And we were talking about leaders needing to be performance-ready. That was the phrasing she was using. That she has a lot of leaders coming to her who are exhausted. What's being asked of them is Herculean. It's too much, and they're exhausted, they're stressed. And she said, at one point, just even creating a space where they can pause and relax and breathe, she thinks they've won. And she also does a lot of work in trauma-informed coaching. And this kind of concept of leaders bring their full selves to the role. And if my full self is not in a good place, or if my full self is not gone through some of that personal exploration, well, that can impact my ability to lead others. So, I know that you're passionate about this inner work as well. So, what have you been thinking about recently? What's been on your mind as you engage with organizations, engage with others? What are you thinking about recently?

 

Christina Helena  14:23 

This is such a good question. So much is in this brain of mine. The thing I have been thinking about lately, and it's mostly in me because I feel like I'm probably the best subject for myself. 

 

(Laughter)

 

Christina Helena  14:41

I’m just trying stuff out on me here. James Hillman wrote about the inner Daemon, and sometimes I feel like I have to explain this. I don't mean demon, not our inner demons, even though we all have them.

 

Scott Allen  14:59 

Daemon, not demon. 

 

Christina Helena  15:06 

Yeah, Daemon D-A-E. And the way that I understand what James is trying to say is like this inner pulse, some will call it intuition, some will call it spirit, some will call it your soul. Call it whatever works for you - I love it. Any definition that works well for you, go for it. And it's like, I tend to feel this. It comes off in agitation at first. I'm working, and all of a sudden, my work doesn't excite me as much, or a specific project doesn't excite me as much, or a specific task. I'm like… That feeling, dreading it. Which I suspect is what most leaders feel like. Most people who have a job feel like, at least, that's been my experience as well with talking with people who have roles in the corporate world. And when I start to notice that in me, it's like the four-year itch to do something drastically different. And I've been feeling it right now. I've been feeling it right now, and I've been like, “Oh, this is interesting. I'm curious about this. I'm really curious about this ‘nothing stimulating me.’ Well, why is it not stimulating you? Is it because you're maybe overworked? Maybe the work is just not aligned with your creativity. Is it that you're too tired? What is it? What is it?” And I stay curious. I stay curious because sometimes people are over-exhausted and hate their job. It's not the job; they're just exhausted. So, for me, it's like really tuning in because it's so easy to subscribe to what's going on to something exoteric, something like, “I hate my job. I can't stand the company I work at. Everything sucks there. Leadership sucks.” And those are quintessential things; they’re complaints. And that's like the communal complaint. People will get together and bicker, and then they feel like they don't have enough time to work. Well, you spent five hours just bickering. And so, it's like an interesting dynamic and I try to go inside. And I always try to take the approach of self-responsibility. Okay, if I'm not happy in this situation, whether it's a project, role, job, or relationship, well, I chose it. So, if you're going to choose it, you have two options. One, do it and stop complaining about it, or stop doing it and find something different. But that is in between staying in it and suffering, but then complaining about the suffering, which I can't deal with. That, for me, is very difficult to subscribe to, and that's why I feel like I push myself out of these patterns.

 

Scott Allen  17:53 

Well, what you're saying is totally resonating for me. I had a similar feeling. So, I've been in academia for 17 years, and just as a full-time professor in a university. And probably the last couple of years, maybe even three, I started to notice that the enthusiasm was less authentic, just unbridled me showing up excited. And I had to pay attention to that. I had to kind of explore that a little bit. And, of course, it's easy to externalize it, “It's because of this, and because of that, and because of another thing,” but it was really, “Where's my energy?” And I love your phrasing; getting curious about that and exploring it. And I had a lot of conversations with mentors, psychologists, and my wife over the last few years, exploring that. And it came down to, it was really, how do I want to spend my time, and where's my energy? And so, I just love your phrasing there. And, of course, there's fear in that. That's a little bit scary because that involves, for many listeners, a whole host of shifts, adjustments, transitions, and unravelings that may feel a little bit realistic. But I did. I spent two, three years kind of trying to prop up and prep for that potential transition because, that initial feeling, I got curious about it. And it sounds like you're in that space right now of, “Okay, I'm curious.” And I want to feel, and I know you are this way as well, I want to be in a place where I feel excited and enthusiastic, that I'm learning, that there's a mountain in front of me to climb and new places to grow, right? And I didn't feel like I was growing potentially.

 

Christina Helena  19:51 

100%. For me, it's about this… I'm just curious about the evolution of my soul and where we're going to get to when we reach our mortal death. 

 

Scott Allen  20:02  

Wow. I love that phrasing.

 

Christina Helena  20:04  

My relationship with death is a little bit different, I suspect because I don't have data on this. When I was faced with my mortality as a teenager, it taught me something about mortality. It forced me to see that my fear was not in death. And I think, as humans, we have this fear of death. Is it a conscious fear? I'm going to say no because no one's walking around saying I'm afraid of death because we all know it's inevitable. So, you're going to lose your mind if you're walking around saying, “I'm afraid of death,” because it's inevitable. It's going to happen. Sorry to break the news; death is inevitable. Where we start to subscribe, and kind of mess with our brains is that we tell ourselves, “Oh, death's not coming till 90. Oh, no, I'm going to make it to 80, 82.” Like, “Oh, I'm 21, I have plenty of time.” Well, I was 18 years old, and I was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and then I was given six months to live. So, I'm literally having a crisis. A crisis of faith, a crisis of reality, a crisis of everything. I was like, “This doesn't make sense.” I'm going to use a bad analogy here, but I'm full of them. Let me take it back to my Greekness; it's like olive oil and vinegar. You can't put a 19-year-old with death; it just doesn't make any sense. Well, you can't blend olive oil with vinegar, which, by the way, I love in a good Greek salad. So, it's like this, I had to start to see the world, my world, through these like things that don't make sense, but really they do make sense. It was the greatest gift I ever got because I didn't look at the world and my life as this list of things I need to get done instead of I look at it from, “You're curious about these things; how far can you go because does it really even matter?” What really matters? Does it matter that I got a million degrees before my death? I don't know. Does it matter that I achieved all these, I don't know, work, awards, or personal things? I don't know. What really matters? And this journey really forced me to see what matters. How people matter. Relationships matter. Love matters. Your inner peace matters. And I find that a lot of people will sacrifice their Daemon, that inner pulse that's telling them what they want, that's telling them, maybe, perhaps, what direction to go in. They sacrifice it. They sacrifice themselves. They sacrifice their inner peace. And the most valuable currency for me is inner peace.

 

Scott Allen  23:12 

Yeah. I think it was probably during the pandemic, at some point, we were having dinner with their kids, and we were all around the table, and I said something to the effect of… And I've said it one other time on the podcast, I think, but it just came to my head. I was like, “Well, look, life is about people, place, and purpose, or you could also say passion.” Are you surrounding yourself with people who help you be the best version of yourself and who help you thrive? And sometimes that may not be who you're born into. Is your life surrounded by those individuals? Are you in a place that gives you life that is exciting, that you feel alive when you are in that place, whatever that is? And then, have you found that purpose or that passion, and is that part of you being fed? And, at times, I think, at least for me, a couple of those were starting to be missing in that transition that I spoke of. But how you're framing it is absolutely beautiful. It's so wonderful. And I forget exactly how you just said it, but it was almost like it's not about a to-do list; it's about what I want to experience. What do I want to explore? What do I want to learn, and who do I want to do that with? And that's a meaningful life. Does that make sense? Does that capture it somehow? That's the meaning. Not that I did this TED talk or that… Maybe that's a part of it, potentially, but it's also about that I'm staying in that… Well, there's that quote, Carol Dweck, “Becoming is better than being.” It's engaging in that process of becoming. And I think we all feel when we're not becoming, we're just being.

 

Christina Helena  25:08 

Yeah. Being is being in stagnation. It's not reaching potential, it’s not activating and being curious about what else.

 

Scott Allen  25:19 

Yes. And I think people get stuck. And I think people make decisions where they don't feel that they either, in reality, or feel that they have a choice. These are friends of mine who may make decisions about money and where they need the job. They need it, and so they're stuck. For 15 more years, they're stuck. And I think that kills the soul. I think that's… Oof, right? 

 

Christina Helena  25:48  

Yeah. Well, you got to take a look at why you need it.

 

Scott Allen  25:52 

Okay. Go, say more about that. 

 

Christina Helena  25:54 

Well, I mean, ‘needs’ is a really strong word. I'll tell you what I think we need. A house with a roof over our head, some food, and water. Do I need five purses? No. Do I need a bunch of shoes? No. Do I need elaborate trips? No. So, we all get to decide what we need, and that's fair. Great. But when someone decides to stay in a job -- let's just use that as an example because we've been talking about staying in a particular job -- that they don't necessarily love, but they're just staying in it for the money. Which can I dare say is pretty common?

 

Scott Allen  26:43 

Yeah, I would assume so. Let's just both go out on the ledge and say, “Yes, that's probably fairly common.”

 

Christina Helena  26:54  

Okay. Well, it's what kind of lifestyle we are trying to keep up that we need the job versus maybe making some changes. I just feel that sacrificing your soul, sacrificing your happiness, sacrificing that inner peace is not worth any material object that sometimes leads our decision-making. And I think it's really hard, and I have a lot of compassion for this because it took a long time for me to understand -- because I was guilty of this -- these personas we wear, these masks we wear within the world so we can coexist and not crumble. Because if we wore our trauma, if we wore our sadness, if we wore our stress and our anxiety on our sleeve, and everyone got to see it, we would feel so overly exposed and vulnerable, we wouldn't even be able to get out of bed. So, we wear these personas of, “I’m this person, and I'm that person, and I'm this,” and we move through the world. And the longer we wear these personas -- and again, I'm just going to keep reiterating this, I say this because I saw this in myself -- the more and more cemented these personas became my identity. It was almost like the personas became my identity, and, at some point, I didn't know what was what.

 

Scott Allen  28:21  

Nice. Well said. Profound. 

 

Christina Helena  28:26 

So, the personas only came out of my need to hide who I was, not because of who I was bad, but because of who I was hurt. I was traumatized, and I didn't have the confidence yet, or I didn't have the strength to let the world see me for who I was, which was vulnerable. And that took a lot of time to deconstruct. And I realized that… Again, I'm telling you, 19 years old was like the hardest year of my life, but the best year of my life because I had this little moment at 19 years old where, at the time, my boyfriend at the time said something that wasn't very nice. And I'm just going to disclaimer: I have no hard feelings over this comment. I'm actually glad I heard this comment, and the comment from his perspective, I'm sure, I don't know, but I'm sure it came out of his fear and our inability as teenagers to handle me facing my mortality, which, inadvertently, made him face his mortality. But, at the time, he was so desperate to not lose me, or really to not lose himself within this experience that I was going through, of facing my mortality, having six months to live, the reality that I could die, that when I did survive, he just wanted to hold on. And when I didn't want to get married at 19 years old, and felt I was too young, and felt I had a lot of things to kind of move through here before I consider marriage, he said, “Well, you have to marry me. Who's going to love you with a 13-inch scar across your body?” And my first thought was, “Oh, he's right. Who is going to love me with a 13-inch scar across my body?” And that was a thought that had never gone through my mind until he said it. And the first thought I had was, “He's right. Who is going to love me with a 13-inch scar across my body?” And then the second thought I had, it was kind of like the angel, and the devil, and your shoulder kind of going back and forth. The second thought was like, “Oh, hold on a second here, Christina, hold on, sister. No, no, what do you mean? You believe him?” It was like, “I left my body.” I was disassociated, and I was watching myself go back and forth. And that was the first glimpse I had of how who I was and who I was pretending to be was different. And I felt it in such a powerful way that I knew if I didn't confront this duality that I was experiencing within myself, I was going to be in a lot of serious trouble because, for the rest of my life, I would make decisions that didn't make me happy because I would make decisions from a place to hide what I wanted to hide. We all have things we want to hide, painful things we've been through. And I feel like there's not a single person in the world that gets through life unscathed. We're all born, we all die. In between, I sure hope people have a lot of laughs, but it's impossible to get through that in-between phase without having some hurts. 

 

Scott Allen  31:58 

Yeah. Well, I'm processing what you just said, and again, it's beautifully framed. And I love the awareness in the moment of your own processing of what's happening there. Would you talk a little bit more about that? You said the angel and the devil. It's fascinating that moment and the clarity of that moment because I think all of us experience those moments where something is said to us that we internalize, that we then believe, that we then subconsciously act upon, which then creates these narratives and internal dialogs and pathways. Little pathways alter the course of our lives potentially or can be a source of strength. There were two paths at that moment. Obviously, there were an infinite number of paths in that moment, but I'm oversimplifying from two to infinity.

 

Christina Helena  32:57 

Perfect. That sounds about right. If you were looking at this from a quantum physics perspective, that statement is 100% correct. From two to infinity, everything's a possibility until it becomes actuality. There you go, Scott, it's great.

 

Scott Allen  33:11 

Did you process that with anyone else? Did you talk with folks about that statement, or did you just kind of internally begin to observe that and observe your own dialog? Because that whole metacognition of thinking about our own thinking and the impact of our thinking, it's incredible. Such a fun topic.

 

Christina Helena  33:33 

I did not talk about it with anyone. And, for whatever reason, I was wired in a particular way to kind of be in my head a lot, I think a lot, I'm curious a lot. It was an aspect of me that I feel was shaped at a really young age when I was living in Greece. I've been encouraged since I was a young child to follow my intuition and impulses, and I'm always curious about thoughts. Or if something comes up, I'm like, “Well, why did you think that?” And it was in that moment that I understood that even though somebody has an opinion about you, it doesn't become your opinion about you until you subscribe to it. And if you have that same opinion as somebody else, that is because you made a choice to believe it. And that is a choice. That is a choice to believe something. That is a choice to stop believing in something. And I'm really fascinated with self-responsibility because I think when we tap into self-responsibility in a way that absolutely everything, I think, absolutely everything I say, absolutely, dare I say, even things I go through are 100% my responsibility. Now, here's what I'm going to give a disclaimer. There are moments when people are in positions where things are happening to them and they're not responsible: a car accident or cancer. And I agree you're not responsible if the cancer happens. Well, you could argue that if you're not eating healthy and not living a healthy life, that's another conversation, and I'm not a doctor. My point is that these things can happen to you. And I always say I'm not responsible for maybe some things that did happen, but I am responsible for keeping them alive. I am responsible for victimizing in my head and every single day feeling, “Oh, poor me,” or, “That was horrible, and my life can't get better because this and this happened to me.” Every single day, I make a choice to be a victim or not, and that's where I feel self-responsibility is really powerful in shaping your identity. And once we are brave enough, and I do mean brave because it was probably the most courageous thing I ever did to face myself, much more so courageous than kind of like saying, “Okay, 40% chance of dying on the table here, but I'm going to go through and have a Whipple surgery. And, yes, you can remove five of my organs completely or partially to try and save my life.” That choice, as a 19-year-old, not knowing if I was going to wake up from the surgery to save my life, was less gutsy than the courage it took for me to see myself. Because, to see yourself, you have to see your darkness. You have to see your self-responsibility for the victimization. And you're going to have to forgive yourself for all the years that you didn’t choose yourself. And that's gut-wrenching. That's gut-wrenching to say, “Oh my God, I've been so mean to myself for all these years.” But the beauty of it is you have a choice every day to shift it and to live this really beautiful life till what I call your ‘mortal death.’

 

Scott Allen  37:07 

And that then is the source of the ‘My Scar is Sexy.’ I'm going to reframe this, what that represents is reframed.

 

Christina Helena  37:22 

‘My Scar is Sexy’ came out of my understanding of how powerful shame is and how powerful the experience of shame the power it has to curate and decide who you are. If you let your trauma and your shame decide who you are, I can dare to say that you'll never discover who you truly are. You'll be these perpetual personas that are surviving in the world. And when I was able to confront my shame, I started to shift and change in ways that I was like a complete stranger to myself. I truly was having an identity crisis, and I went through a couple of them where I was like, “Oh my gosh, I have no idea who I am.” But I stopped doing things that I wanted to do, or things that I would do like, like always cracking jokes and making sure that everybody was laughing around me. I couldn’t care less about cracking jokes and making everyone around me have a good time because I was just so consumed with investigating myself. I just became so curious about why I was allowing shame to control my life, and I realized that cracking jokes at that time in my life was a coping mechanism. Was a mechanism to keep people a little far away, “Don't get too close so you don't really figure out who I really am, but let me just crack some jokes so you just stay far. And I'm going to make it bright, funny, and shiny here for you so you don't go digging and figure out that I actually have shame; I actually don't like myself.” And that was my coping mechanism as a teenager into my 20s. And early in my 20s, I confronted my shame after the experience I had with my scar. And ‘My Scar is Sexy’ became this, like, I'm going to play with words here. Because I think the word sexy is such a provocative word. And we have so much marketing and advertising telling you how to be sexy, what is sexy, and the desire to appear sexy, which, for me, means that other people find you sexy, and that fuels something within an individual. And I was like, “Well, wait a minute here. Why does being sexy have to be such an exoteric thing? The world tells us it has to be this exoteric thing, but what if your soul made you sexy? What if who you were…?” Meeting people and saying, “Oh, my God, I love who this person is. I love this person's core value system. I love what this person represents. I love how this person takes full responsibility for their life.” What if that was sexy? Can we make that sexy? And this thing that is so hidden, trauma and shame, I just want to help support people bring that up to the surface because I do believe that once you do bring that up to the surface, you can start to work through that pain, you can start to identify with it differently, you will meet a different version of yourself. And when you start to meet a different version of yourself, I can't help but feel that you're going to think that version of you is sexy, which is probably going to tap a little bit more into the inside, your soul, than anything else.

 

Scott Allen  40:50  

I love that phrasing: meeting a different version of yourself and tapping in. And I kind of see like those other fictitious identities, or fictitious… I forget the phrase that you used, but the facades move away and near you.

 

Christina Helena  41:12 

Yeah. And to be fair, though, these facades, because I just want to be super clear here, the facades are important because the level of trauma that some people carry is so much that, if confronted too much too quickly, really, people could have a breakdown from it, like a nervous breakdown. So, it's so important to always be on the journey towards healing. And that goes back to the quote you were talking about with the difference between becoming and being. If you're just being, there's a stagnation to it. But if you're becoming and constantly moving and investigating yourself to understand why there is shame and to release the shame, yes, you're in this perpetual experience of meeting new versions of yourself all the time.

 

Scott Allen  42:01 

But if you're in the other world where those narratives have a grip, yeah, it's a hard place to be, and your potential, not saying, is lost, but, again, you may not meet that new version or that more authentic version, or however we want to phrase that. That version of you that thrives is living into why you're here and what you're supposed to do. And, Christina, you put that individual in a position of authority then, and that's where it comes back to leadership for me, and that's why I always… Amy Fox, when she said, “Are you performance ready?” I think of a world-class athlete. or you're an actress, you think about production. Are you ready? And I think there are a lot of leaders out there who are not performance-ready, who have experienced some of these challenges. They've been stuffed away; they live somewhere but show up in ways that maybe then don't serve them well when they're in that position of authority. And that's why, for me, it's so critical that leaders focus on that work, and they are supported, and they prioritize their health, and their wellness, and their exploration. Because, oof, it's difficult. It's not easy.

 

Christina Helena  43:43 

I'm hearing you speak about this self-exploration, and I think about the embodiment of a leader. And you know the word ‘authority,’ which the word ‘authority’ is difficult for me, and maybe that's because I was a rambunctious little teenager that didn't like authority. 

 

Scott Allen  44:00 

Well, you put them in a position of authority, right? 

 

Christina Helena  44:05 

Well, interesting enough, oftentimes, if you think of leadership, or what leadership looks like, it's a lot of people kind of pushing on their authority. You have that level of self-introspection and curiosity in yourself. What it does for me, which I think is important for me, is it constantly connects me back to my humanity, which is difficult. I think, as mortals, we don't like that we're human. Something uncomfortable about it. We don't talk about it. We're not conscious of this. We're not going around saying, “Oh, I don't like being human,” because we have no other options other than to be human. But there's something uncomfortable about it. And I've read a great book, Pema Chödrön. She's this Buddhist Monk, and she talks about living in this groundless existence. And really, she changed my life because I understood, as a human being, I'm uncomfortable with the reality that I don't have control, but I sure try to have control every day. I got my Google calendar here; I have my meeting set up. Control, control, control. And you start to think about leadership. The more control we have, it takes away this natural human vulnerability that we don't have control. And that's also what I learned from facing my death. I don't have control. Death can come knocking on my door any minute, any minute. And what is this relationship with life? What is this relationship with death? For me, it's with those two things, but it certainly doesn't have to be that with anyone else, but there might be a representation of something else for each individual. And, ironically, it just goes back to this, like, just mind your own damn business. People get so caught up in other people's drama. Every human being's got enough drama in their own life to just deal with their own. Just worry about you. There's a vast amount of stuff that I can just sit and deal with myself about myself, I don't need to get involved in other people's drama. And when we just take that focus on us, we tap into our own humanity. Because in order to see the people you lead, they're humans, in order for you to acknowledge that they're humans, and some days they have certain needs, and some days they need more compassion, you have to be able to see your own humanity. And if you don't see your own humanity, how can you possibly see theirs? If you don't treat yourself with this level of vulnerability and respect, how could you possibly treat other people that way?

 

Scott Allen  46:57  

Yeah. And I think there are a lot of folks out there who have a lot of armor, and they don't accept humanity in themselves. Again, they haven't done that work or exploration. And then, to your point about vulnerability, the complexity right now that leaders are facing, you have to be vulnerable. You have to be able to look at the team and say, “I have no idea what we should do. What do you all think?” Because no one's ever experienced a pandemic, at least in the last 100 years. No one has experienced digitization and globalization to the level that we have. You can't go to some expert and get the answer; you have to model that vulnerability. And if you can't model that vulnerability, you're on an island. Literally, that, for me, is the first indicator that you're going down if you can't model that vulnerability and say, “I don't have it all figured out. I don't know, what do you think?” But so many people construct a leader as the person who's the authority, has the answers, and can identify the six steps to get us out of this. And I think that's a recipe for not going to good places.

 

Christina Helena  48:18 
 
We've moved into a whole new world. And I agree with you because the old world was this hierarchy, which really comes from this post-war era, and we're no longer like that. But in order to be vulnerable, certainly in front of colleagues, with colleagues, in a leadership position, and in a leadership style, one has to be vulnerable with oneself. And that can be way too scary because what they’re saying is you can no longer be good at your job until you're good at being you, and that's never been the case in the past. People could just stuff who they are at home, just show up at work, do their job, and leave. 

 

Scott Allen  49:23 

Yeah. And I don't know that it's an absolute for me, but you have to be able to shift into that gear. Of course, there are going to be times when you want to display confidence or want to suggest that you have a strong sense of the path forward. And there are times when you need to be vulnerable; you need to be human. I think of a woman in my community, the CEO of Progressive Insurance, Tricia Griffith, who did a beautiful job leading her organization through the pandemic. And I had her speak in a class that I was teaching, and she modeled that vulnerability beautifully. And in that time, and in that era, I think people were feeling concerned; people had questions, and people didn't know. And for her to say, “I don't know also, but we're going to get through this,” I think you have to be able to switch into that gear. But, for me, the non-negotiable is whether you are continually doing that work, looking within, and ensuring that you’re performance-ready, whatever that means for you, so that when it's time to shift into that gear, you can. Otherwise, there's too much crust. There's an impenetrable wall that ultimately will be the individual's demise. But, Christina, we're close on time here. Anything else that you want to mention or highlight before we begin to wind down our time?

 

Christina Helena  51:51 

I wish you curiosity to everyone listening. I wish you curiosity. And when something painful comes up and you hear that little voice that's judging you, kind of being mean to you, if you can, instead of subscribing to the negative self-talk, maybe just ask yourself, “Why did you just have that thought?” That was the way I got myself out of the dark hole. And it took me many years of just asking myself, “Why did you have that thought?” Then, again, “Why did you have that thought?” Okay. And then, “Why did you have that answer, and why that thought?” And I have to tell you, Scott, it came down to three or four things every time. And that's how I understood, and used your words, what had a grip on me. And when I started to see how this vast amount of thoughts, opinions, and versions of me were all rooted back down to like two or three things, it's like this funnel, I went right down, like, “Oh, there you have it, Christina, there's your answer. That right there is what needs to be healed, transformed, and moved into, forgive the pun, a sexy scar.” (Laughs) Because I knew that, at that point, nothing would control me. Scott, I can't hear you. I think you went on mute by accident.

 

Scott Allen  53:33  

Sorry about that. I said exactly, exactly. I think that's where we end because that was just beautifully said. Beautifully said. Well, I loved this exploration. We didn't really have a set plan for where this conversation was going to go, and I'm so thankful for this conversation. I always close out by asking guests what they've been listening to, streaming. What's caught your attention in recent times? It might be something you've been reading; it could have something to do with what we've just discussed, or it could have nothing to do with what we've just discussed. But what's caught your attention in recent times? Maybe it's an upcoming trip that you're exploring; who knows? What have you focused on?

 

Christina Helena  54:17 

I always have trips I’m exploring. There are usually four on the docket, and we'll see which ones make the cut. I’m the perpetual going on like delta.com, booking nine trips, knowing that more than half of them are going to get canceled, but that's the way you make; at least half of them happen. But instead of talking about travel, because we'll be here another hour, I have been listening to all the recordings of Alan Watts's lectures lately.

 

Scott Allen  54:49 

I don't know Alan Watts. Who is Alan Watts?

 

Christina Helena  54:52 

British philosopher. He wrote the book ‘The Wisdom of Insecurity.’ I won't say too much more. I'll send you a link. And I literally go on Spotify and I can sit there for four hours listening to him just speak. And hundreds of hours of lectures are online on YouTube and Spotify, and I just listen to him because I reflect. And I listen to them over and over because each time, I'll probably hear something different. I love his voice, and I love how he pushes and questions. So, if you don't know Alan Watts, check him out. It might be your cup of tea.

 

Scott Allen  55:31 

I will. I love it. I love it. We'll do it again, Christina. I really, really appreciate your time today. 

 

Christina Helena  55:37

Thank you, Scott. Thanks for having me.

 

Scott Allen  55:37

Thank you for a wonderful conversation. Oh my gosh, thank you so much. I appreciate it, and I look forward to our paths crossing again soon.

 

Christina Helena  55:45  

See you soon. 

 

Scott Allen  55:47

Bye, bye.

 

Christina Helena  55:47

Bye.

 

 

[End Of Recording]