Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders with Scott Allen

Dr. Assegid (AZ) Habtewold - Welcoming the Butterflies

January 08, 2022 Scott J. Allen Season 1 Episode 103
Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders with Scott Allen
Dr. Assegid (AZ) Habtewold - Welcoming the Butterflies
Show Notes Transcript

Dr. Assegid (AZ) Habtewold is a transition and transformation strategist at Success Pathways, LLC (www.successpws.com). AZ has over 20 years of international leadership experience in both classroom and virtual environments serving diverse clients in government agencies, corporations, and community organizations in the US and overseas. Dr. Habtewold specializes in designing leadership cohort programs for emerging, middle, and senior leaders. He has a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degree, a Master’s in Computer Science, and a Doctor of Strategic Leadership. AZ also has certifications such as Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI), Emotional Intelligence (EQ), Project Management Professional (PMP), and Instructional Systems Design (ISD). He is a member of the International Leadership Association and the host of the "Pick Yourself Up" show that airs on MMCTV Channel 16.  AZ has published six books:

A Quote From This Episode

  • "Many organizations just promote people and see whether they sink or swim...A lot of people making their first-time opportunity to lead are suffering."

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

About The International Leadership Association (ILA)

  • The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals with a keen interest in the study, practice, and teaching of leadership. 


Note: Voice-to-text transcriptions are about 90% accurate 

Scott Allen  0:00  
Okay everybody, welcome to the Phronesis podcast practical wisdom for leaders today I have an author, a number one best-selling author. And this is Dr. Assegid (AZ) Habtewold. He goes by AZ he's been busy writing really it's gotten the attention of some really wonderful people. Dave Burkus, who of course, has been on the program, Marshall Goldsmith, who I'd love to have on the program, Marshall, if you're listening, give me a call. But AZ, you've been busy, you've been writing and overcoming first-timer syndrome. So if you would, let's have you share a little bit more about you and your background. But then I'm excited to jump in and learn a little bit more about the book and what you found in your writings.

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  0:48  
Thank you very much, Scott, such a great opportunity for me to be here in conversation with you. I look forward to engaging and sharing whatever I know about insights in the book for those of you who are interested to know another background about myself. I'm originally from Ethiopia. I came to the United States in 2005. I used to be a researcher working for an international organization before I came to the US have was a software engineer. I did my doctoral degree in Strategic Leadership, actually, David burkas, we were the same batch. And we were doing our doctoral degree together. And he also endorses the book. I have been also a trainer since 2007. I've been serving government organizations, community organizations, corporations in the US and overseas. My main focus is transition and transformation. I'm trying to help leaders, especially first-timers, make a smooth transition as first-time supervisors. For a site manager first-time executive, I also help organizations transform their organizations and people by transforming their culture.

Scott Allen  2:10  
AZ, this is such an important topic -  first-timers because it really is kind of an identity shift when you're moving from, you know, a solid frontline worker, someone who's doing the work to an individual who's now getting work done with and through others. That's a shift. I mean, that's a and I can and I can see how some people could feel like imposters could feel insecure. I know I did the first time I was kind of given that role. And so I'm excited to hear what you found in your research and in your writing. What are some themes that you would want listeners to know, based on what you found? 

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  2:52  
You're right, it's a very important theme that we need to really give focus on, especially for emerging leaders. Like yourself, I used to be a first timer, student leader, first timer, youth leader for a cyber trainer, first timer business owner, I know how it felt Yes, very hard. Back then I didn't know it was a first-timer syndrome. I didn't know. After that. However, I was traveling around the country invited by some organizations that wanted to empower their first-timers. That was when my eyes were opened, I couldn't be able to see that this is really important. And I had wished that I had that opportunity where I always supported when I was making the transition. Unfortunately, many organizations, just promote people and see whether they could swim or sink. Yes, people sink especially the first couple of weeks and a couple of months. What was interesting for me and which actually forced me or encouraged me to write the book was that when I was traveling, and also when I was having one on one conversations with my coaches and mentees, I realized that this is really a universal thing. A lot of people making their first-time opportunity to lead are suffering, and therefore I need to write this book so that I could give them a manual and I could give them some insights tools so that they could be able to overcome the first-timer syndrome.

Scott Allen  4:30  
Is he as you're talking? I mean, I'm thinking of, really the first book I wrote was with my wife's aunt, and it was for charge nurses. And really the first time a and this is maybe a little more of a historical model in some places now, but they were called charge nurses because for a shift they were quote-unquote in charge, and then they might kind of go back into the ranks for the next shift. So you might be in charge of people that now are in charge of you tomorrow. but it's really the first time a nurse would move into a position of authority even for short moments, right, in a shift, so to speak. Yeah, but they were given no resources, zero resources on how to get work done through others how to influence others, how to be successful in that role. And to your point, the sink or swim thing? Yeah. I mean, it's really, in some cases, kind of tragic how we don't support people to be effective in these very, very difficult roles. Right? You're, you're in charge of an ICU for a shift. That's not easy work, especially in the last 18 months.

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  5:40  
Yeah, definitely. You know, part of the reason is those people who are promoting these first-timers, they didn't have any health. They didn't know the existence of first-timers syndrome. And they were thinking like, you know what, they could handle it, they could swim. But most people, including myself, that I talked to, suffered a lot in terms of performance in terms of health. In terms of relationship, actually, one of my mentees told me that I wish I had known this long time ago, I thought I was the only one. And she felt like she was blindfolded. Yeah. And put to that position without even any clue about what she should expect should do. You can imagine the stress, the anxiety, the frustration, the pressure, the stress. And you know, that first impression is very important. And a lot of stakeholders, the people that you lead, the decision-makers, and so on, they're watching you suffer, and they may have that bad impression about how you perform it. When you were promoted in that first leadership role. It would have been very, very empowering. If you have a book like this one, you just peek and immunize yourself. Think about this COVID-19 If you got immunized, even if the virus is basically to you if you won't be infected. Why? Because you are immunized. Yeah, that's what I have done. I wanted people to just have this book this resource, read it prepare before you take your first-time leadership, or in that case, you're immunized. Yes, you're gonna be afraid. Yes, you may be nervous, yes, you may be pressured. But at least you know that this is normal. And you know that if you're going to go away, within a week, or maybe within days, because think about this car experience, and people, even people like you and myself, we are learning professionals, we are empowering leaders. If you put me into a new leadership role, I can tell you that I may feel a little bit nervous or concerned. But I know how to deal with that. Because I had been there before. Therefore first-timer syndrome is common. The only challenge for emerging leaders is that they may not know that's normal, and also they don't have resources.

Scott Allen  8:11  
Yes, yes. And I love your analogy to the immunization because, in the coming weeks, I'll probably get a booster. And I'll probably need a booster. In the coming years, I would imagine that this will be with us for some time. I'm releasing an episode AZ, with Dr. Chip Souba. And Chip. It's really interesting. He was the former dean of the College of Medicine at Dartmouth at Ohio State, worked at Mass General oncologist, and just a really, but he had this really cool quote when we had our conversation. And it was that personal growth in this personal development is inward work. It's a mountain with no top similar to those boosters. It just continues forward. Right? We just continually focus on this. And I love that you are getting people on that first path that hey, you're not alone. Here's a resource. This can help. And this will get you going on your journey. But you're at Basecamp and this mountain has no top.

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  9:16  
Exactly. And that's why you right? That's very important. You have to have a booster you just beginning and I actually I finished the book by providing a couple of important antidotes that are going to help them continue to grow because you know leadership, you're always on the learning curve. You can't say you know what, I am now at the top or I am done, I have arrived. You always have to grow. If you want to really serve. You have to get ahead of your sheep quote-unquote, your followers, the people that you serve, you can't go ahead and serve and deliver great results without growing constantly but it's always a good thing to have a post So it's always a good thing to have that domino effect, that first resource that is going to help you make that transition smoothly. After that, you need to excel as your first-timer. position. And actually, you need to really prepare yourself for the next level. By the way, one of the things that I want to empower first-timers, and also people who are afflicted by imposter syndrome, is also discussed in the book. The second Chapter, is that look, you're more than enough, you're stressing out yourself, you can actually you can go to the next level, why are you suffering where you are, you should not even bother and stress, stress yourself out where you are, your organization, your community, the world needs you. And go to the next level. If you suffer here if you are stressed here if you feel you're not educated, you're a fraud, and you're not ready for the position you have right now, you are actually penalizing your organization, the people that you serve, because they want you to keep on serving. And I can tell you this, a lot of organizations are starved of great leaders, because a lot of leaders are hiding, a lot of leaders are believing that they're not adequate enough, they are suffering from imposter syndrome.

Scott Allen  11:25  
Yes. Well, I was watching a really wonderful movie. It's called the edge of purpose. It's a documentary. And it highlights, I believe it's seven individuals in different areas of kind of work. So there's an artist, there is an individual who photographs wildlife. And so individuals who are passionate about their work, but in different domains, and this one woman in the film, and I'm not going to get this quote, correct, but listeners can go ahead and watch the edge of purpose. It's a great film. But she says something to the effect of, I take all those little voices, I call them my gnomes. And I frequently will gather them over to the cliff and then push them off. But I thought that was such a beautiful image or visualization of those voices that we all get when we are and you know what, I think AZ I think those voices. Speaking of the edge, sometimes in my own work, I'll call those edge experiences where when you get that feeling in your stomach when you get those butterflies when you don't know how it's going to go or if you're going to succeed. That also means that you're working at your edge, which means that you are developing and growing. And that means that you're kind of if you consistently feel that I'm not talking every day, but if over time, you're consistently feeling that you're growing, you're developing, right, so I think it's totally natural and normal and knowing when to push those little gnomes or those demons off the ledge. 

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  13:10  
Exactly, that's a great point, actually, in the book I talked about the sources for your imposter syndrome, the sources for you feeling inadequate could be one, the inner voice, the inner critic, which is the most powerful, and also other people who may be skeptic about you. Some could be hoping to get their position in and now you got they feel like they're better than you. Or some people knew very well that they think you can't do this or you're not good enough. And they may not see it in your face verbally. But as you lead them, as you work with them, they may show some verbal, nonverbal tone...Expressions that let you know that you're not adequate. And you need to know how to push them off the cliff, whether it's your inner voice or those people who are giving you some cues, letting you know that you're not adequate because they're not right. Actually, I can tell you as a inexperienced speaker, every time I have a speech...a presentation, I have that because it's a good thing by the way - when we feel that it's a good thing because I want to serve my clients. I want to go beyond their expectations. I want to give my best that pushed me to the edge and I like that butterfly, that nervousness. The only difference now and compared to when I was just starting as a speaker was now I recognize the butterfly and I know how to handle it how to push it off the cliff because it's good to have that feeling - nervousness - it makes me prepare, it's actually I go a and most of the time, the previous night, go to the place, visit the place, see the stage, see the outlets the ports, and also reach out to your contact person ahead of time days ahead. That butterfly, that nervousness, that push that edge is the one causing me to go the extra mile. Otherwise, I may become complacent, I may not go the extra mile to know more about my audience. Therefore, first-timers, not really preparing them to be complex, and I'm helping them hey, do your part. Yes, you're going to feel it, you're going to see some people undermining you, or giving you some cues that you already know those. But at the end of the day, you can only overcome that first, if you work on your mindset. If you overcome the imposter syndrome, develop certain skills, use these templates, these models, and deliver results. Because at the end of the day, if you don't deliver quick results, what happens is that even the people who are watching you going to start to question whether they made the right decision. Because at the end of the day, they saw your potential they promoted you, for them to start questioning you or anybody who's doubting you. You can only silence them at the end of the day, even if you have some tricks. So silence them temporarily. At the end of the day, you silence them if you deliver results.

Scott Allen  16:37  
Yep, I think it's wonderful. And I love what you said in there about you welcoming the butterflies. I mean, that's a mindset shift that is so powerful. And there's a lot than that statement, I welcome the butterflies. I think that's so admirable. Now AZ, what I want to do is this, I want to get maybe another couple of concepts from the book that you would like listeners to be aware of that will entice them to pique their interest enough to go to Amazon and purchase. But also, I want to know a little bit about you, I want to know about your path to this whole conversation around leadership and why you've become passionate about this work. What was the spark for you that facilitated that? So a couple more things from the book. And then let's switch gears to you if that's okay.

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  17:25  
Yes, definitely, definitely. A couple of things I want to mention is that we talked about the mindset part where you need to know your place, the more you know, a place, the more you become confident, the more it boosts you encourage you to feel that you deserve the promotion. And you're the right person. We talked about the imposter syndrome, how to be in charge to ignore silence the little voice with them. Yes. But I want to also talk about the importance of them knowing how to build their team, because they are individually, too insignificant, too small, and too insufficient. None of us could be able to do great things by ourselves, especially first-timers. Yeah, therefore, actually, I asked my audience managers, what do you think the people who promoted you expect from you? What what does that measure the measuring stick? They used to know whether you are doing a job or not? Most of the time, I don't get the right answer. My right answer is that it's not about what you perform individually in terms of the kind of things you do, individually that brought you to this promotion, because they saw you performing, they saw that you were great in what you do, but they promoted you so that you can raise people like yourself. Yes. And for us, success is going to be dependent on the results you achieved by mobilizing your team. Therefore, once you overcome the butterflies once you push them off the cliff, the second thing you should do is how could you be able to build your team? Sometimes they may allow you to hire your team members. Sometimes they don't. They don't. Therefore, it doesn't matter who is around you. You can really help them quickly develop them. I suggested in the book what you should do so that you could have this team that's acting like a well-oiled machine. Yes. If you are that you could deliver results also talked about the importance of performing which means how to evaluate performance, how to make your team accountable, how to provide performance feedback, I gave them some templates how to do it because one of the challenges of first-timers is that they don't know how to make people accountable. They've been accountable. Now they are Leaders as first-timers, they may become pushovers. Of course, some may go to the extreme and become bully, and try to drive people. That's not right. You don't need to use, you don't need to take those two extremes, you have to be in the middle, to be a partner, to lead others. And one of the ways by which you could be able to achieve performance, by mobilizing your people is not to wait on a date of the project or at the end of the year to provide performance feedback, you have to give them performance feedback on the fly on a weekly or a monthly on a quarterly basis. And I give some insights, the kinds of feedback they could give, how to give them the step by steps, the conditions, what to do, what not to do. There are a lot of insights like that tools like that very practical. By the way, in the book, I didn't talk about the background about what leadership is, how many types of leadership or their leadership styles are there. I didn't talk about those background information because they can go and read other books. Yeah, Job was right away, I have a couple of diagnostic questions that can help them whether they are infected by that particular syndrome or not, whether they have the symptom. And then I provide to them like up to four insights, jam-packed with some tools, practical tools, some steps that could take some strategic and some insights that they could use wider way so that they could overcome the first-timer syndrome, make the transition, and also excel in their first-time leadership.

Scott Allen  21:43  
You had some important words in that last passage. I love the word mobilize. I love the word partner. I love the word smooth. Yes, smooth transition. But I think that that last word you used at least that stood out for me that Excel, right? Can we mobilize others? Can we partner with them? Can we make this not an extreme experience, but a smooth experience? And then ultimately, we all win, we all Excel, and hopefully you're bringing and developing the team around you. And by doing so and by them knowing that you care and want them to develop and grow as well. The team is going to achieve results. And so I love your framing of it's not about you, it's about the team at this point and building that team to get somewhere new to achieve the results.

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  22:34  
Definitely definitely, because at the end of the day, leadership is not about you is about force, your passion, your mission, but at the end of the day is about others, whether you could be able to serve them whether you could be able to take them from point A to point B, sometimes, you know we may be carried away. And we think leadership is about maybe creating a great team, maybe creating a great system may be having great technologies, the budget, the capital, and so on and so forth. But at the end of the day, all of these are important. But the team should be able to achieve its mission, which means you have to take them from point A to point B, you have to take care of them. Yes, you have to develop them yes. But at the end of the day, smoothly, you have to excel deliver results and take them to point B, if he can't do that you're doing a disservice to yourself to the team and to the greater good of the organization. 

Scott Allen  23:37  
AZ what was the path for you? How did you get interested in all of this stuff? Getting a doctorate and the doctor was in leadership? Correct?

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  23:46  
The first one I had, by the way, says a very interesting story long story, but I'll make it very brief. And if you have any follow-up questions our answer. Yes, my doctoral degree is on leadership strategic leadership. But I had my first degree it was veterinary medicine, which I was a doctor of veterinary medicine. Before I had initially this unclear path where I didn't know who I was, what my passion was, what path I should follow him. So I now was just following the culture in our culture, you are encouraged to become a doctor or an engineer, stuff like that. I would say all of my family members, my peers, were sciences students, but once I was in college, I realized that I really am passionate about empowering others by reaching out to others. And I realized that leadership was my passion. And then at that point, it was difficult to make a shift because of the education system. Yeah. What I went through a hard time until I came to the US. Did we I Master's in Computer Science, and I got the opportunity to pursue my doctoral degree in leadership. But these all started when I was awakened to realize that my passion is leadership, empowering others, helping them tap into their potential to maximize their potential. That was the reason why I decided to make a shift in my profession, start to be a speaker, trainer, and coach,

Scott Allen  25:30  
I'm gonna ask you a hard question. I'm fascinated by this. So veterinary medicine. So you had a lot of biology, a lot of anatomies, you had a lot of that type of content, but then computer science. So there's, there's this whole other side of the world that we're kind of looking at through the lens. And then strategic leadership. That is really cool, I just finished a book called range, which is, let's see if I can get the title How generalists succeed in a specified world or something like that. But you bring a really interesting lens to this topic of leadership. How did some of your studies in veterinary medicine or computer science inform how you think about leadership?

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  26:17  
Yes, you're right. This is hard. It's tough. But I'll try to explain that actually, one of the regrets I had is after attending in all of this veterinary medicine, computer science, working as a researcher working as a software engineer, now making a shift into a totally different field, it was hard, and I thought, I completely lost my time, my years, but I realized that actually, as the book range talked about, actually, I benefited, because right now, my clients, the client that I serve, they find some benefits because of my background, as I go to serve organizations, for example, NIH, or National Cancer Institute, yes, I am working on leadership programs, empowering them on leadership programs. But I know what they do I know the jargons they use, I know the challenges they have. I know what kind of stories resonates with them. I was there, therefore I couldn't be able to easily connect with them, I can easily have them see the importance of leadership in what they do. Therefore, I would say that whatever I learned as a veterinarian, as a researcher, as an IT guy, as a software engineer, informed me a lot because I use a lot of metaphors, things that worked in those industries. When I work with clients that are in these industries, and they find them very important. 

Scott Allen  28:02  
We'll just that that background and that experience. There's...I don't know if you've read any Ron Heifetz, have you read any of Ron's work? 

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  28:09  
I don't remember his specific work. But if you mentioned some of them, I may remember,

Scott Allen  28:14  
he wrote a book called leadership on the line, another one called Leadership Without Easy Answers. But 

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  28:20  
Oh, I know, Leadership on the Line. I began that book. I didn't finish it. But yes, I know his works. Leaders. Yes.

Scott Allen  28:27  
So he has this he calls Adaptive Leadership. But again, he came through medicine and is looking at leadership through I mean, I listened to him give a speech once about kind of the biology of leadership. And that was absolutely fascinating. Because, as you know, we can look at this topic through history, political science, biology, sociology, we can look at it through psychology, anthropology. I mean, there are so many different lenses. So to bring this, the different perspectives that you have medicine, but then also software engineering, I think that's so wonderful, because not only like you said, can you be in front of those audiences and know their world and speak their language and speak in those metaphors. But it also has to just bring a perspective. I think of systems thinking, for instance,

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  29:26  
I can give you an example. That may really confirm what you're saying, for example, when I talk about diversity and inclusion, I actually give them a metaphor, which is really very close to home, which is I use petri dish culture, I show them I can give you for example, how I presented I tell them that you know, we all are the products of our culture, and therefore we need to understand other people wherever they say they do decide and act even if it is different than ours, they are helpless, we are helpless because we are the products of our culture. And I give them a good example based on a petri dish based on culture because the petri dish that we use to grow microbials, we call it culture actually, yeah, and I show them the picture. And I give them a simple example, think about this, you can have two Petri dishes two cultures totally different. One could be the actual, you can use one bacteria, you could use two different Petri dishes or two different cultures, you may harvest totally different microbials at the end of the day, based on the pH based on the chemicals you use, based on the environment, based on the acidity of the conscious, which means I can use a bacteria to produce a vaccine using one of the cultures and I can use the same bacteria, the same bacteria to create a biological weapon. Yeah. The difference? The culture? Yeah. So I use a kind of very practical, very close to what they do, as a metaphor as an example, to communicate some important concepts.

Scott Allen  31:23  
I think it's a strength. I really do, I think, your perspective on the topic, given your background, and that's just so impressive, my friend, I mean, computer science, veterinary medicine, to strategic leadership. I love it. I really do. Because I think that diversity of thinking is so incredibly important. And that perspective on the world and on the topic is important. And it's a strength it really is. So what have you been reading in recent months that's caught your eye, maybe something you've been streaming or listening to? That has really kind of piqued your interest in recent times. In recent

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  32:06  
years, I have been focusing more on because these were the areas where I needed to work on one was empathy. Very passionate person and one very positive person, I may experience a setback, for example, today, it may bother me today, maybe tomorrow. But I immediately deal with this with that, and I'm always positive. But I realize that people all people don't really process, for example, setbacks or challenges as the way I do, even if my intentions were good. If somebody comes up to me and tells me about the challenge, the setback they have, I'm always scared to tell them how to overcome that, how to be motivated, and so on. And I really, I was struggling to show empathy. In recent years, I used to, I used to really read a lot and learn more about empathy. Most importantly, practice, was very hard for me, because it's not my second nature. Another area I was growing was vulnerability. I never knew this concept that much in recent years, until I saw a speech by Brandon Brown. And I read her book. And I was amazed because, in the past, we were told, if you're a leader, just be bold, you know, always show and courage and come out and don't share your weaknesses be strong stuff like that. But in the 21st century, really, people are looking for leaders who are also humans, leaders who could connect and resonate with the people in need. If I am perfect if I don't share my vulnerabilities, well, I'm not connecting with my audience. They feel like I'm different. I'm not one of them. And you know how hard it is to lead people who don't think that you're one of them. These are two concepts I've been reading in recent years. Recently. Also, I'm curious about the great resignation that's happening because of COVID. I am seeing some data and also seeing some organizations making a huge change in terms of telework policy because they have seen that people now work hard, actually, when they are remote because, in the past, they didn't want to give them a lot of chances for people to work remotely. Now COVID showed them that actually, people struggle to keep the balance between work and life and they are over-delivering, therefore they are now trying to change their policies so that even if we go back to work, they want to give more opportunities for their people to have that ability to choose to work virtually. I facilitate some webinars In terms of hybrid, leading a hybrid, we are in the hybrid environment, following latest technologies in this regard, because it's coming, hybrid is coming, we don't expect that everything will be in person or all virtual, unlike it used to be. Therefore, these are some of the things that I'm learning, investigating, talking to friends, colleagues learning, and becoming better

Scott Allen  35:27  
it is, it's going to be really, really interesting to watch this unfold, and witness how organizations shift and adapt back to that, that kind of word that adaptation, it's going to be very, very interesting to watch it play out. Because at least in my circles, friends of mine, that are in environments that have become very rigid again, they're struggling, they're struggling, and they don't, you know, Why to sit in my office, so I can be on a Zoom meeting with the person next to me, the next office over, but we have to be here, you know, it's just highlighting and magnifying some of those issues. And I don't know, it's gonna be really interesting to see how, how organizations fare and where this lands us. There were some things in the last 18 months that I absolutely loved about being at home, and I'm actually struggling right now, AZ with, you probably are struggling with this at least observing this. I won't say struggling. But the shift between being on Zoom presentations, and doing that work versus now traveling again, and travel time to clients and stuff like that. It's really, it's been an adjustment back. Yeah. And there were some benefits to opening up the laptop giving the presentation and then shutting it and having dinner with my family.

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  36:53  
Exactly, exactly. So that's why now leaders in the past if you know your industry, change happens very slowly, you can just leave without any adaptation, you can really be successful with little improvements. But now things are changing very fast. Especially now, things are changing like hybrid. And people now tested how it feels like to work remotely, the benefits of building their relationship, their family and avoiding traffic that drains energy traveling, line up for security checkups, and so on. People saw the benefits, it's very hard now to tell people to go back to the norm, you don't have the same norm. Now. The challenge for leaders is how do they adjust to the new normal? Yes, and it's gone, they can't survive. They if they don't, they don't benefit the organization, they're going to suffer in their leadership. And that's why we have a lot of resignations. Now, because there are some leaders, some organizations they're not adopting, they are now making some shifts, necessary shifts after the crisis. Leadership is all about you going ahead of the curve, understanding the new norm that is coming ahead of your people. You need to go virtually they're prepared for them to survive the crisis right now. outlasted actually to even thrive beyond the crisis. But some organizations failed to survive. They're not surviving. And they're not. outlasting they've gone. A lot of them. But some are very, very smart. Those who went ahead of the curve. What they actually did was, yes, they survived, they outlasted, but they're actually leading the pack. Yes, well beyond the head of the curve. That's leadership.

Scott Allen  39:04  
I just got a note from a student of mine today who's interviewing at an organization in my community that is well known for its empathy and for the vulnerability of some of its leaders and for its ability to have a pulse on what the people want. And they've been pretty flexible with how people can work, how people can engage. And really, I know that the workforce is very, very much appreciated that. So it's so interesting to watch it all play out. It just is and AZ, I hope you will return and we can continue the conversation, the dialogue. Good luck with the book and I know that it's already done very, very well. I think what's exciting about that is at some point I would love to circle back with you, even instead Some months and just explore what you've learned in the process of releasing the work, what you're thinking about currently, because I think the conversation is such a fun one, how do we prepare first-timers to be successful and have a good experience of leading versus to your point, the sink or swim model where we provide very few resources, very little education, hand them a p&l, tell them the quality scores, and then say, go for it.

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  40:37  
On top of the first-timers syndrome for emerging leaders, Supervisory project managers, new business owners, I am working on follow up books for mid-level managers, and also executives, I am researching I have seen also in my work, how mid-level managers have their own unique challenges, and how hard it is to make a shift from supervision to a management position, especially in the middle. And also executives the statistics, the data shows that it's new executives, they quit or they're pushed out or fired. Within the first month, we've covered the first couple of months. Part of the reason is because they're not equipped. And they tell you the reason they haven't given the necessary sources information tools before they were given the opportunity. It's unfair to put someone in a new middle-level management position or executive leadership position and expect them to thrive without supporting them. So I have follow-up books. This one is for emerging leaders. For first-time supervisors. The next book is going to be for the first time, middle-level managers. The next one will be first-time executive. So I will come back again and again. If you don't know me. At least these books out come back and I love

Scott Allen  42:04  
it. I love it. We have a long runway of conversations. Yes.

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  42:09  
Thank you. Thank you and I look for the opportunity to see you're a great host asking really great questions, sharing great insights and stories. I love engaging with you. And I hope that I'll get future opportunities to come back and engage with you.

Scott Allen  42:25  
I'd love it. I'd love it. Well, thank you, sir, for the good work you do. Everybody. You can find information on how to purchase the book or contact Daisy if you want to they are in the show notes. So be well everyone. Thanks as always for tuning in. T

Assegid (AZ) Habtewold  42:41  
Thank you very much.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai