Dr. Randal Joy Thompson is a global wanderer who has been moving from country to country working in international development since the 1980s. She has worked and lived in India, Cameroon, Morocco, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Romania, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Liberia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Jordan and worked short term in a number of other countries. She loves exploring new cultures and working with teams of local nationals who always teach her new things about the world and what is important to value.
As a scholar-practitioner, she recently focused on "leadership on the commons." Her book Proleptic Leadership on the Commons: Ushering in a New Global Era was published in October 2020 and her upcoming co-edited book (with Devin Singh and Kathleen Curran) Reimagining Leadership on the Commons: Shifting the Paradigm for a More Ethical, Equitable, and Just World will be published on September 29, 2021. Her 2018 co-edited with Julia Storberg-Walker book Leadership and Power in International Development: Navigating the Intersections of Gender, Culture, Context, and Sustainability won the 2018 Academy for Human Resource Development R. Wayne Pace HRD Book of the Year Award.
She has published articles and chapters on women in El Salvador, Afghanistan, Morocco, Bosnia & Herzegovina, and Myanmar. Her company, Dream Connect Global, creates networks to help people achieve their dream. She earned her Ph.D. in Human and Organization Systems from Fielding Graduate University, a MA in Philosophy and MBA from the University of Chicago, a MA in Biblical Exposition from Capital Seminary and Graduate School, and a BA in Philosophy from the University of California, Berkeley. She is currently a Fellow at Fielding’s Institute for Social Innovation. She is a mother of two sons and a grandmother of five grandkids.
To learn more about her work, visit Randal's Website.
A Powerful Quote From This Episode
Resource Mentioned in This Episode
About The International Leadership Association (ILA)
Connect with Scott Allen
Dr. Randal Joy Thompson is a global wanderer who has been moving from country to country working in international development since the 1980s. She has worked and lived in India, Cameroon, Morocco, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Romania, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Liberia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Jordan and worked short term in a number of other countries. She loves exploring new cultures and working with teams of local nationals who always teach her new things about the world and what is important to value.
As a scholar-practitioner, she recently focused on "leadership on the commons." Her book Proleptic Leadership on the Commons: Ushering in a New Global Era was published in October 2020 and her upcoming co-edited book (with Devin Singh and Kathleen Curran) Reimagining Leadership on the Commons: Shifting the Paradigm for a More Ethical, Equitable, and Just World will be published on September 29, 2021. Her 2018 co-edited with Julia Storberg-Walker book Leadership and Power in International Development: Navigating the Intersections of Gender, Culture, Context, and Sustainability won the 2018 Academy for Human Resource Development R. Wayne Pace HRD Book of the Year Award.
She has published articles and chapters on women in El Salvador, Afghanistan, Morocco, Bosnia & Herzegovina, and Myanmar. Her company, Dream Connect Global, creates networks to help people achieve their dream. She earned her Ph.D. in Human and Organization Systems from Fielding Graduate University, a MA in Philosophy and MBA from the University of Chicago, a MA in Biblical Exposition from Capital Seminary and Graduate School, and a BA in Philosophy from the University of California, Berkeley. She is currently a Fellow at Fielding’s Institute for Social Innovation. She is a mother of two sons and a grandmother of five grandkids.
To learn more about her work, visit Randal's Website.
A Powerful Quote From This Episode
Resource Mentioned in This Episode
About The International Leadership Association (ILA)
Connect with Scott Allen
Note: Voice-to-text transcriptions are about 90% accurate
Scott Allen 0:01
Okay, everybody. Good morning. Good evening. Good afternoon. Welcome to the Phronesis podcast and today, I have Dr. Randal Joy Thompson, and I love how she describes herself in her bio. She says that she is a "global wanderer." Maybe that's what we'll title this episode. Randall. I love it. She has moved from country to country working in international development since the 1980s. So she's worked and lived in India, Cameroon, Morocco, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Romania, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Liberia, Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan. That's just a few. She is an author, her book proleptic leadership on the commons, ushering in a new global era was published in October 2020. And she has a new book that she co-edited, reimagining leadership on the commons shifting the paradigm for a more ethical, equitable, unjust world. Now her books have won awards, you can find out more about that in the show notes. She has her Ph.D. from the Fielding Graduate University, an MA in philosophy, and an MBA from the University of Chicago. She did her undergrad at Berkeley, and she's a grandmother, maybe that's the most important thing. She was just this last weekend with her grandchild at the science museum, maybe that's the most important thing we need to let listeners know, Randall, what do you think listeners need to know about you?
Randall Joy 1:28
Well, indeed, I have a grandmother. And it's really been interesting that the pandemic has given me the opportunity to be with my grandchildren, because I work overseas, and I'm currently working in El Salvador. And so I didn't see my grandchildren very often only, perhaps at Christmas or summer. And so now, you know, we were all evacuated back to the States. And I have been able to work virtually with my team. They're all extremely high, powerful, professional Salvadorans, and they're doing really well, without me, maybe better than when I was there. And so I have really had the pleasure of visiting my grandchildren, both in Maryland and now in New Hampshire, and exploring the world from their eyes.
Scott Allen 2:25
Oh, that's great. Yes, we were just talking about before, we started recording, seeing the world through their eyes. It's so much fun. It really is the first time they experience something new, right? Whether it's bubbles or the holidays, or just I love that moment when my children learn something new that they never had any concept was a thing. And just watching the processing happening in their eyes.
Randall Joy 2:57
Yeah, it is indeed fascinating and revives our spirit, I think yes, no, I have more energy to continue my global wondering.
Scott Allen 3:09
Okay, so, Randall, we need to talk about a couple of things because you're using some words that I'm unfamiliar with, I have not come across Proleptic Leadership, or on The Commons, and maybe some listeners have not heard that phrasing or terminology as well. So help us understand how you're thinking about leadership. I'm really, really interested in learning more.
Randall Joy 3:33
Okay. Well, I discovered the commons many years ago when I was looking for evidence about global civil society because I work in international development. And one of the areas that were really keen to develop is a strong civil society. That's kind of a balance between the government and the private sector. And I started seeing the word commons everywhere. And that led me of course, to get commons article now-famous article on the commons. And you know, in which he looks at the commons as a piece of shared land, in which people, the farmers would bring their livestock to graze. But inevitably, there would always be a farmer who would over-graze and feel like he could get more than the others and not take responsibility for caring for the field. So basically, Hardin was worried about overpopulation. He wasn't at all, you know, a commoner or concern, per se with the commons, but he was His concern was that we would overpopulate the earth and destroy all the resources. Well, then Elinor Ostrom, a professor at Indiana, and who became a Nobel Prize winner, argued with him and said, No, you've missed the major point. And that is that people can communicate. They can develop ways of working together so that they don't overuse resources. And she, she really started the whole commons movement. She studied resources, natural resources, but the commons movement has really moved into everything, knowledge, information, now the internet and online communities, and so forth. So that really now I think people can see the commons as an organizational form of self-organized community, that's co-managing code leading some type of what they consider shared resources, according to certain values. And those are highly ethical values of compassion, collaboration, responsibility. And the gift, the gift economy, there's the commons atom melodically kind of combined the concept of gift and responsibility, you receive something, but you owe something at the same time. And so I discovered a whole list of extremely interesting writers that have been writing about this concept. And it's growing, actually, and a lot of them are predicting that the post-capitalist society will be a commons-centric society. So I just became extremely fascinated with it and started interviewing individuals that were working, living on commons, trying to find out what their values were, how they lead, what how they conceive of the future. So that's kind of how I got into it by accident.
Scott Allen 6:52
Well, that is I have never I have not heard of this. So what did you learn in some of your research talking with people? What were some of the findings that you came across?
Randall Joy 7:03
Well, I found that a lot of people that got into the commons, were very concerned about increasing enclosure, which means that a lot of things have been privatized, and commodified, that they consider should be open, for example, water, all the water companies are, you know, taking the water out of the Great Lakes and other bodies of water and marketizing them. And Salvador that's happening. All the bottling companies are there, but yet people don't have water. Yeah, you know, half of the population lives without water or relies on rainwater or occasional water. So and it was happening and other fields like land in things even like culture, they were thinking that culture was getting more commodified, things like knowledge, because the move has been that a lot of companies that were running journals, and libraries and so forth, started the same process of buying each other out. So there are fewer companies now that provide that information and knowledge. And it's extremely expensive. And a lot of copyright. Lawyers from Harvard actually started writing a lot about that, that that has really limited the possibilities for creativity in science because a lot of people can't access that knowledge and information upon which they could expand and it would generate more creativity. And then the Internet came in and commoners thought that was a great way for people outside of the state and outside of the private sector to Manage Communities. Hmm, of course, we know it. It has happened to some extent, but there's all as every new technology Some people use it for good and others use it for bad. So yes.
Scott Allen 9:11
Yeah, I think since fire, that's been the case with human beings. Or maybe the stick I guess, I don't know. No, no, what you were probably the stick was first.
Randall Joy 9:23
I think you know, that communists feel that they're on the good side of all that and that they're looking forward to a society, which has higher ethical values and based on community and care is fundamental, and there's a lot of now writing on care, and how important it is as a foundational value.
Scott Allen 9:45
Randall when you talk of commoners, are they living in a community together? Are they just people with a mindset in different places all over the world who have come together to talk Talk about these topics. Help me understand that because again, I am this - it's rare that I come across something I've literally never heard of, especially when it's Nobel laureates writing about my life
Randall Joy 10:18
I think commoners are, you know, covered the spectrum from those that are actually living in community managing resources, the Ecovillages, for example, all over the world, where people have really decided to come together and live in community and manage their lives separate from the government and from the private sector. And then there's a lot of scholars, or there are practitioners that are just interested in it. So I think it covers the spectrum. It's those really, who are very concerned with all the increasing enclosure, and possibilities of not having access to resources, and also concerned about the value system that has arisen in our society.
Scott Allen 11:11
Talk about eco-communities, I've not heard of eco-communities. Oh, so tell me a story. Maybe somewhere in the world where because I imagine when you were doing the research, you visited some of these communities.
Randall Joy 11:23
Yeah, I was just ready. And I had already paid to go to Costa Rica, from El Salvador to live in an eco-community for a while. And then the pandemic hit, and they canceled all the flights, and they canceled the Eco community. In Costa Rica, for example. It's a group of people that and some of them have been living there, like over 20 years, in which they live in natural surroundings, they grow their own food, they have their own design of how the community looks and interacts. They have their own way of making decisions, and they create their own rules. And Elinor Ostrom, who started this whole thing was very, she had eight principles by which a commons could more most effectively be governed. And the rules are extremely important. And also the what happens, the consequences, when people don't follow the rules. Eco communities, like other commons, have gotten together and developed rules, how they're going to live together with their values are, how they're going to eat, who has what responsibility, and so forth. But they're there because they feel strongly that they want to live in a sustainable world. They value the notion of community. And they felt that their lives, you know, in the mix of society were being they didn't have the power. That's the other thing I wanted to mention. A lot of commons is derived from the notion that people feel powerless, they want more control over their lives, they want more control over decisions that affect their lives, more control over what they can eat, what they, you know, just what they can believe, and so forth. And feeling that often society has kind of closed in on them, giving them the sense that they don't have as much control or power over their own lives as they would want.
Scott Allen 13:32
Okay, this is really fascinating to me, I want to go to so who owns the land for some of these communities? Is it someone who just decided to use that land for an eco-community? But also, what are some of the eight principles? Are there one or two that stand out for you? And how does accountability work in that community? Because I imagined before you are in Costa Rica, for instance, before you were going to go and live there, you would have had to have agreed, to their way of being correct.
Randall Joy 14:05
Well, that's true. But you know, I was a temporary visitor. So yeah, I wasn't committed to that lifestyle. Long term. Yeah. But yes, while I was there, I would have I would not have been able to be there. If I didn't agree. And if I, you know, traverse their rules, they had the right to tell me to leave. So definitely. So that's an essential part. And in terms of land ownership, I think, because I interviewed another eco-community in New York. They're all over the
Scott Allen 14:40
world. Really. How do you go eco? I'll put...
Randall Joy 14:43
There's one very popular one in New York. As far as I know, they jointly own the land. They all have their own homes. So some of these are really nice homes. They're, you know, zero-emission sustainable homes, but they're not. You know, if you go to more like in, in Costa Rica, the homes might be smaller, but many of the Eco communities just have just regular homes like you would find in any community, just that there are zero emissions, that they're sustainable, because those are the some of the main principles for eco-communities, they have their own decision-making processes, and people have left their lives and in the city or wherever they're from, and, you know, devoted themselves to that. They decide communally how to have their children educated, and so forth.
Scott Allen 15:47
And that is interesting. So, what did you find out about leadership? How does it differ if it does at all in these communities? Or what were some insights?
Randall Joy 15:57
This is one of the things that I kind of disagreed with a lot of the writers in the commons because a lot of them, especially those that believe more, in that we're shifting towards some kind of a communal communist type society, that leadership has no place. And I disagree with that. So one of the reasons I did the book on leadership was to find out this leadership still has a place in the commons. And I concluded, absolutely. I mean, definitely, when you're in a system in a community, people play different roles of leadership. So that doesn't necessarily have to be one monolithic leader over them, telling them what to do. But leadership is certainly being expressed. And a lot of the writers in the commons say, No, it's governance. But I'm sorry, but I think leadership and governance are quite different things. And when I looked into some of the systems, leadership literature, you know, I saw that also expressed governance is kind of okay, how are the what are the rules that we're going to operate by, which is very important? Yeah. But leadership is The Spark. It's the, and any system will die without that spark of innovation, that spark of insight, that spark that keeps if you're talking in system terms, the system emerging to new forms in response to environmental or internal changes. So I think leadership is still necessary. And I. So I mean, I don't know about the future in a comment centric if we do evolve into a common-centric society. But I certainly think that leadership is important now. And then, since commons are prefigurative forums, say more about that real quick. Okay. prefigurative is living now, as you would like society to be in the future. Okay, good. So, commoners are living with the values, the relationships, and so forth, and they would hope that society would evolve into that prefigure chip. And it's a powerful way of change. But when you translate that into leadership, it's proleptic. Because you have that vision of that perfect society that you want to create. And that vision drives your leadership, it drives the way you are, that you're being on every level, on the personal level, on the inner relational level, on the social level, once you have that vision so clear, it keeps glimpses of it keeps coming to you. I mean, theologically, we know it's the kingdom of God, right that we're as Christians were to be living the kingdom of God bringing it into existence. In literature, it's often a tool used to show what's going to happen at the end. And so you're reading and then trying to figure out, okay, how is this how does that the puzzle of how would this in that way, but in Commoning, they definitely have a vision of a common centric society. So, to lead proleptic Lee is to have that vision constantly. Constantly. In front of them. They're led by the future. And that vision and to me, it's powerful because it changes everything. bout you the way you live what you think, understanding that everything you do is having an impact. I mean, just that realization makes people very cognizant of what they say, what they do, how they behave because it all percolates. it percolates upward. And so I used in the book and action kind of framework of the micro, mezzo macro, and even universal levels. Because even spiritually there, I mean, most of the spiritual traditions and, and I did also do integral studies years ago. And, you know, it's shown that almost all the spiritual traditions are evolutionary toward some future, perfect future, and some different relationship of who I am versus the universe. So I really think that that somehow is in the heart of every person. But if we need to be more consciously living that way,
Scott Allen 21:07
It sounds like these commoners, are working to be very, very present with living those values and living by a certain set of principles that are very clear to them. And as you said, living as we would hope our society will be in the future. How do they talk about spreading that word? How do they I mean, because again, that would be an act of leadership in and of itself to influence others, that, hey, we kind of have it figured out here, we were doing it better we're living, we're living a more fulfilling, we're living a more principled we're living. However, we want to frame it better life, "influencing others," that it's not a cult, or that it's a better way of existence. I mean, that's a daunting Leadership Challenge, in and of itself, right, because you're now taking on capitalism and other large systems in place. And am I in the ballpark right here? Or? Oh, yeah, you are?
Randall Joy 22:16
Absolutely. You are. It's a huge issue. You know, I guess, writing the writing word of mouth. Some scholars think it will just happen naturally. But most of the ones that I studied, in turn, their model of changes, that they would start federating somehow relating to other commons and somehow growing, growing and so that people would start seeing that that was a better way of living, and start perhaps joining more, but and then the sharing economy is not really calm, I mean, parts of the sharing economy are very Commons oriented. But there's a lot of debate about the sharing economy, because a lot of the companies Uber and Airbnb, I mean, they're run just like a big capitalist country. Companies. They have, you know, so. But in a true commons, it's a sharing economy. Some people think that because that's happening more and more, perhaps, eventually it will shift to a pure sharing situation without the large corporations. I guess responsible leadership is trying very hard also, to make corporations more responsible. Yeah, there's a lot of different pushes. And Jeremy Rifkin, a kind of social therapist thinks that the common world will evolve naturally, because of things like the way production is being done, said there will, there won't be enough profit left for companies to survive in that more local communities will start producing for themselves. There's a lot of different things happening in the world, both in production and values in the political space, that a lot of common scholars think is showing that we're moving in that direction. Whether we will or not, that's another question.
Scott Allen 24:26
Yeah. Tell me about so you, hypothetically, have you lived for a period of time in one of these eco-communities in the past? No. Okay. So what's really interesting to me is once you arrive, I mean, I just I literally every component, meals, toiletries, I mean, is it that we are working to literally make our own soap is it at that level, and we don't buy tide?
Randall Joy 25:00
Exactly. If you really want to live separately? No, absolutely. That's an extreme example. Yeah. I don't think that the people in New York are doing that. I mean, they have their own houses, they, I think they still buy from the store. But I guess, I mean, over time, I suppose. That's what they hope for. I know when I was interviewing them, they were setting up. So everyone could have electric cars. But I, and I suppose there are some people making their own. Oh, yeah. But I think that, and this is one of the challenges of living in the commons. Can't you really still need the market? How can we, at this point, be total, I suppose. I mean, some communities are they're off-grid, right? Yeah. Do they do everything themselves? Yeah. But I would say the majority of people that believe in this model are still dependent on the market to a certain extent, the ideas, either the market will become more humane, or they will become more independent from the market.
Scott Allen 26:13
Well, it's interesting from leadership, the leadership conversation of all of this, yes, within the community, there's acts of leadership, but there's, there's governance. But to your point, if we're going to take the community somewhere new, if we're going to discuss the topic of everyone having an electric car versus not, or making some other visionary thought, a reality. And that, again, that could be we're going to move to off-grid living. If we're in that New York community, we're now we're going to move toward, that's an act of leadership. But then also this, this, this other level of leadership of influencing others around the world, and around wherever it is, you are in the world, that this is the better approach that this is the wise path forward that this is, I mean, that's a fascinating leadership challenge in and of itself, to help others feel that see that believe that. And that's so interesting. That's so you know, I, my wife, and I were just traveling and our family was traveling through New Mexico. And there was this community that was featured in a video that we were watching. And I think it may have been one of those communities. And I think you could rent and you could stay on, but there was a whole community of off-grid. Housing. Wow.
Randall Joy 27:36
Interesting. It sounds like it.
Scott Allen 27:39
Yeah. Yeah. Though. The homes are made out of bottles. And I mean, it was Oh,
Randall Joy 27:44
my goodness. Wow. Right. Yeah, certainly, that state was kind of ahead of a lot of others.
Scott Allen 27:52
It's a fascinating state. I never I'd never had viewed Mexico on my radar, per se, but from an IT JUST on multiple levels is such a fascinating place.
Randall Joy 28:04
I agree. Or there is an International Society for the Study of the Commons. And it's global. I went to their conference in 2018, in Peru was fascinating. And they bring in, they bring in a lot of indigenous leaders, too, because, you know, they've been living on commons from the beginning. And so trying to learn from them about how to lead and what community means and so forth. I would say, probably most of the members of that are not necessarily looking toward becoming a common centric society, they believe that Commons is a viable way of organizing, it can coexist now. But then the more radical ones, scholars definitely believe that. It's a prefigurative process of a post-capitalist society.
Scott Allen 29:06
What because you can get into other conversations of universal basic income and a bunch of other places that you can take, take this conversation, where, you know, essentially, we're moving toward that space where millions of people at least in the United States will be displaced because of technologies, enabling disruption, truck drivers, sales associates, food prep, and we're already struggling. I mean, literally, because of the worker shortage right now. And the struggles, organizations are having to retain employees. They're having to digitize and as they do, so, you know, there it's going to be Andrew Yang, his book, The War on normal people. He does a beautiful job of kind of building the case that there are going to be major shifts in how we exist as human beings. That's so interesting, I feel, again, Randall, one of the things I love about this podcast is that I get to learn. And there are all of these different areas of the world to explore, that I maybe never had any concept of. So as we kind of begin to wind down, are there any other observations you had in your research about leadership on the commons? Or are there other facts that you would want people to know or be aware of? So they could learn more
Randall Joy 30:31
interesting that you're talking about Andrew Yang's, because definitely, AI is going to have a huge impact. And some people think that Commons is going to be a way of survival of the way that people can reorganize in order to survive all these changes. And that thing will have to be more locally done, even politically, somehow, I would just, you know, hope that people start reading more about this, I think that there's some significance to it in terms of changes that are happening. You know, I've also been reading a lot of books lately on the future of the global world, and which the shift over to Asia is the center of power and economic power and even political power, that the United States has to become more aware of where we're going. And will we come out on our feet? And also, I don't know if you know, what course you must know, make Wheatley but I mean, for example, she's training warriors of the human spirit, because it's her contention that we're in collapse? Well, yeah, I've been involved with her group. Also, although I don't, I'm not going to lose hope. But so I think it's important to look at this and figure out is this something that can really help us see the future of our own country as things get more and more chaotic? And as people are more and more displaced and lose jobs? I don't know. And how you can be a leader? You know, that's a challenge. I think that you've given me. Yeah. This is such a noble idea. Shouldn't we be out? You know, spreading the word?
Scott Allen 32:21
Yes. I mean, again, I think, I think we have to be open to many. I just yesterday, Randall, and I'm not going to remember that I'll put it in the show notes. It might have been called Taleo. 's. But there's a billionaire who's trying to create a community out in the desert. And it's going to be futuristic. And it's going to be the modern, the modern community for 5 million people, I think is the
Randall Joy 32:47
oh my goodness.
Scott Allen 32:51
I'll put this in the show notes. So you can at least check it out. But they're raising capital to build this community, this modern community in the United States. And, again, whether you look at this through the lens of sustainability, or climate change, or just economics, yes. Many shifts are afoot. Changes afoot how we adapt to that and how we move forward. I think I think we've lost sight of some very, very important knowledge. And you have your experience having traveled the world know that better than anyone,
Randall Joy 33:31
right? Yeah, I guess I have. Yeah, I have had the fortune, of learning a lot from other people. I always say that I've gotten more from others than I've ever been able to. But definitely, yes.
Scott Allen 33:47
Well, Randall, what have you been reading or streaming or listening to that, that you would want listeners to know about what's caught your eye in recent months?
Randall Joy 33:59
Well, as I mentioned, I've been reading all the books about this transition. 2030 is supposed to be a major year of major transition, in which Asia and Central Asia will rise, reading Harare's books on the issues that we're facing. I mean, obviously, all the writers I've been reading are talking about climate change, but mostly, it's a shift in the world order. Yeah. And how can the US make a soft landing? So yeah, I've been a bit obsessed with all these books. And there's a lot of books out now. And I guess it does impact the work I do in international development because I see somehow our impact our approach as being overtaken quite a bit by countries in Asia. So,
Scott Allen 34:53
so staying up to date on some of these individuals thinking about our place in the world thinking about Soft Landings and thinking about different ways of being different ways of living, that may help us as human beings live a more fulfilling life.
Randall Joy 35:16
I agree. And, you know, we need to get together and think about this before it's too late. Because some of these thinkers, Meg Wheatley included, think that it's going to be a disaster for us, really, but, um, and could end in Third World War, which will lose. So I think that it's time to really start reflecting on who we are and how we can live together better. And not only us, but together globally.
Scott Allen 35:49
Yes. And having just been in New Mexico, which was the epicenter, no pun intended for a lot of what was the last World War? Yes, we would want to avoid those outcomes at all costs. Right? Well, Randall, you have taught me, I learned today, and I am thankful for that. This is what I'm going to literally when we get off, I'm gonna go start Googling these eco-communities and just learn and learn more about the commons. And I'll put some more resources in the show notes and of course, resources to your books. And I think for listeners who are interested, I'm just so thankful for your time today, and I'm thankful for you helping me see another little piece of the world that I wasn't aware of. I always glad
Randall Joy 36:40
to open the door to something new. I mean, that's great. Thank you so much. It's been really interesting. Oh,
Scott Allen 36:47
yes. Yes. Will Have a great day.
Randall Joy 36:50
Thank you. You too.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai