Dr. Kelly Peterson is an industrial psychologist and consultant whose 25+ years of practice specialty includes a wide range of organizational development strategies and design solutions. Her expertise includes leadership development, diversity, inclusion, and equity (DEI), executive coaching, culture change management, strategic planning, performance assessment, management and organizational effectiveness facilitation, design, and consultation. She has worked with 1,000s of leaders in Fortune 100 companies globally, from corporate boardrooms and executive leadership teams to frontline managers.
Peterson has consulted in an array of business industries, including consulting with The Walt Disney Company, designing and facilitating leadership engagements across the enterprise both nationally and globally for over 12 years. She has also facilitated leadership engagements for Coca-Cola, Hitachi, UCLA, Los Angeles County, and Children’s Hospital in Los Angeles. Specifically, she has led DEI engagements for Honda Motors, Honda Manufacturing, Phillips, BMG, Comcast, Viacom, 3D Systems, and Southern California Edison, amongst others.
Her leadership experience includes six years as senior partner and founder of Syzygy Global Consultants, Inc., seven years in a variety of HR management roles, including diversity and inclusion, employee relations, and training and development for Sony Pictures Entertainment, and three years as Chairperson of the doctoral program in psychology and organizational management and consulting at Phillips Graduate University. She has been on faculty for UCLA’s Technical Management Program and The Economic Development, Leadership Institute at College of the Canyons.
She has a doctorate of psychology in organizational management and consulting from Phillips Graduate University and is a graduate of the University of Southern California, Human Resources Development Master Trainer’s Institute. Kelly is a Coro Fellow and graduate of Goldman Sach’s 10,000 Small Business Program through Babson College.
Learn more at: https://transitions2transformations.com/
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Dr. Kelly Peterson is an industrial psychologist and consultant whose 25+ years of practice specialty includes a wide range of organizational development strategies and design solutions. Her expertise includes leadership development, diversity, inclusion, and equity (DEI), executive coaching, culture change management, strategic planning, performance assessment, management and organizational effectiveness facilitation, design, and consultation. She has worked with 1,000s of leaders in Fortune 100 companies globally, from corporate boardrooms and executive leadership teams to frontline managers.
Peterson has consulted in an array of business industries, including consulting with The Walt Disney Company, designing and facilitating leadership engagements across the enterprise both nationally and globally for over 12 years. She has also facilitated leadership engagements for Coca-Cola, Hitachi, UCLA, Los Angeles County, and Children’s Hospital in Los Angeles. Specifically, she has led DEI engagements for Honda Motors, Honda Manufacturing, Phillips, BMG, Comcast, Viacom, 3D Systems, and Southern California Edison, amongst others.
Her leadership experience includes six years as senior partner and founder of Syzygy Global Consultants, Inc., seven years in a variety of HR management roles, including diversity and inclusion, employee relations, and training and development for Sony Pictures Entertainment, and three years as Chairperson of the doctoral program in psychology and organizational management and consulting at Phillips Graduate University. She has been on faculty for UCLA’s Technical Management Program and The Economic Development, Leadership Institute at College of the Canyons.
She has a doctorate of psychology in organizational management and consulting from Phillips Graduate University and is a graduate of the University of Southern California, Human Resources Development Master Trainer’s Institute. Kelly is a Coro Fellow and graduate of Goldman Sach’s 10,000 Small Business Program through Babson College.
Learn more at: https://transitions2transformations.com/
A Powerful Quote From This Episode
Resources Mentioned in This Episode
About The International Leadership Association (ILA)
Connect with Scott Allen
Note: Voice-to-text transcriptions are about 90% accurate
Scott Allen 0:00
Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening wherever you are in the world. Today I have Dr. Kelly Peterson. She's in sunny Los Angeles, California. I'm in cloudy Cleveland, Ohio. I wish I was in sunny Los Angeles, California today, maybe a trip to Venice Beach and do some people-watching or maybe, oh my gosh, that beautiful museum on the hill that has a beautiful view of the city.
Dr. Kelly Peterson 0:26
The Getty
Scott Allen 0:27
The Getty. Yes! An afternoon at the Getty would be so much fun. Kelly, I'm going to introduce you really quick, formerly and everybody, I want you to meet Dr. Kelly Peterson. She's an industrial psychologist and consultant whose 25 plus year practice includes a wide range of organizational development strategies and design solutions. Her expertise includes leadership development, diversity and inclusion, and equity, executive coaching, culture change management, strategic planning, performance assessment, management, and organizational effectiveness. She has worked with 1000s of leaders and her list of corporate clients. It's a who's who Coca Cola, Hitachi, UCLA, Walt Disney Company, the Getty, it's incredible. She's an executive coach, and she does incredible work. And today, we are going to talk about leadership, we're going to talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, we're going to talk about some of these areas of expertise. And Kelly, maybe fill in some blanks. What else did listeners need to know about you?
Dr. Kelly Peterson 1:31
What do they need to know about me? That I'm absolutely passionate about my work. And I feel like, in the world of the people side of orc change, our time has finally come. Meaning to do the work right now.
Scott Allen 1:49
Oh, that's awesome. Well, talk about that our time has come. Let's start there. So what are you seeing?
Dr. Kelly Peterson 1:57
The last 18 months have been a whirlwind, obviously, for everyone. It seems like it's elevated a lot of them. I think a lot of the things that like many people have seen, you don't have to be an academic or consultant to see how things are changing. And specifically in the workplace. And terms of, you know, the war for talent, really top talent, the challenges around creating cultures and environments, that people can really leverage innovation. Those used to be buzzwords, but the truth is, with technology moving so very fast. And then organizations really need to adapt to those changes and leverage technology in meaningful ways. or organizations are not really built for facilitating that our traditional organizations are just not and even newer organizations still come in with the same mindset. And mostly around, you know, what we need from leaders. And so nothing elevated that more than COVID. You know, they're obviously very, very, very obvious in terms of our political leaders, but wasn't just the political leaders, organizational leaders found themselves in like, Oh, my God, what do we do? What do we do? What do we do?
Scott Allen 3:18
So what are you seeing what have you seen? What are some stories you have? Maybe if some organizations, obviously, you're not naming names, but organizations who have really adapted adjusted navigated it? Well, all of these different all of these different shifts, and maybe some areas that some organizations have struggled that you've witnessed?
Dr. Kelly Peterson 3:40
Yeah, well, let me just take a step backward. And just also acknowledge that it's not just been the pandemic, the COVID pandemic, you know, that's really elevated these stressors, but also, um, you know, the murder of George Floyd, and really the recognition of systemic oppression and the impact that it's having on people's lives, just everyday lives. And then all of a sudden, people are really sharing stories of their experiences in the workplace, and how it impacts their ability to really bring their very best to the work that they're doing. So I just wanted to just add that piece in that because really, what this double pandemic revealed, and that's what we call it, a double pandemic. What it revealed is that, you know, we have a lot of inequities, we have a lot of challenges, but we also have a lot of opportunities where I've been seeing his leaders really sobered by these challenges, really recognizing that, hey, maybe there's something going on here that I really either was not present to or maybe not really paying enough attention to in a meaningful way. And the impact that it's having on my workforce, and even on my customer base or client base, whatever that may be, so It's been really, really interesting because I started out I've done my first diversity work, have people always say this, I used to laugh, but now I'm in that place where you're aging yourself in 1997. I was doing diversity work right before the pandemic. And I just want to say that the way I was doing my work, February of 2020, is not the way I'm doing DEI work. today. We talk about that. Yeah. So, you know, I'm a contextual person, I had to provide context first. So forgive me, because I know Scott, you'd really asked me a question. It's really funny, I had actually lost my way from DEI, I just got so discouraged. And really a while ago, I had determined that maybe this is not for me. And maybe my focus would be organizational leadership. And so I've kind of thrown myself and the majority of my work has been in that area, organizational need leadership, cultural transformation. But right before the pandemic, I actually I'm going to give a shout out to another consultant, Dr. Steven Jones, I was just asked to be a part of a consulting team with him with a client already had. And he reignited the possibility of what the AI can be for me, so I have to give him a shout-out. And this world is so much work, we are not competitors, we are really collaborators. So I just want to say that. So he really ignited that, you know, you really could have a genuine conversation with people. So right before the pandemic, I had really started getting back into DEI work. And then once it happened, and then the George Floyd situation elevated, and I started to do conversations on race, with a variety of employees in a lot of different organizational settings, I realized that a lot of what's missing from the work is the actual stories and the impact of those stories in the workplace. And kind of everyday behavior that maybe we take for granted. things people say, and the impact of what people say, and the kind of environments and cultures that organizations are, are making, without being intentional about it is actually not only causing a lot of pain, but also interrupting the possibility of real, meaningful innovation, change whatever it is the workspace that you're in, and in terms of the products and services you want to deliver. And so I determined that in my practice a couple of things. One, it was really important for me to bring in great collaborators. So I've worked with some great consultants over the years. And it's like, hey, look, why don't we bring our resources together? and start to think about and really explore? What could we do differently in this space? How could we make a meaningful difference? And so you know, I brought some folks together. And then I started to decide, Scott, that, you know, I've been around for a long time, I've heard a lot of things. Sometimes as consultants, it's as much of what you don't say is what you do. Yeah, I'm kind of known for being able to say certain things, but I realized, you know, everything, you have the nicest way of saying, you know, a few does anybody have ever?
Scott Allen 8:31
So thank you, after you said that
Dr. Kelly Peterson 8:32
Thank you for that! I really needed that that was so nice. It's a skill. It's a skill set. But you know, sometimes it could maybe muddle the message. And so I started to really explore just for my own personal journey. What are the things that I'm not saying, that could make a difference in this space? What are the experiences that I could maybe elevate, just you know, as a coach, but also just as a human being as a consultant, as an employee, you know, what can I elevate in this space? Because I realized that the real challenge is people just don't see what they don't see. You know, there. We've been talking about implicit bias before this work began. I mean, before the pandemic, and everybody's talking about it, but I wondered if we were really getting underneath what's really happening, because when you're in those discussions, and people are talking about their day-to-day experiences, it's very moving. And in some ways, it can be almost devastating. And I'm like, how can you be at a Fortune 100 company getting paid a great salary? You know, doing amazing work, and literally feel like you're dying on the inside? Yeah, because what you find what you learn is the impact of systemic oppression on the individuals who are part of so-called money. marginalized communities mean that you have to step down a lot of stuff. And you know, I'm being polite, because we're on the air, because I really, you know, say another word for that a lot of so you know, you don't realize that you are because you're just doing what you have to do, to survive in the work to thrive in the work to keep going. And you know, this is true for women, this is true for people of color. This is true for LGBTQ plus individuals, in some places, it could be your religion, whatever it is that that makes you and others are one of the only ones in the room, you know, it has an impact. So part of our conversation is, what would happen if people didn't have to focus on that, and they could just focus on contributing? Yeah, they could just focus on bringing their ideas or thoughts, their experiences, you know, their insights, what would happen if we had that kind of environment? So what we've begun to do is explore, how could we raise this level of awareness around people's experiences, and connect to where the organization is going, and the impact that's having on the organization actually getting there, wherever there is,
Scott Allen 11:23
Talk about that? Because I imagine once you start hearing those stories, it becomes it makes explicit, all of the barriers to disengages the challenges, or at least more of them, that people their lived experience that they're carrying with them every day.
Dr. Kelly Peterson 11:42
Well, you know, I think the first thing is that we made a decision that we wouldn't work with any organization that we could meet with the CEO first, that's first and foremost, yes. So we made that decision early on, our preference is to meet with the CEO and the entire executive leadership team of an organization. And then we really push to also meet the board. Because this is a movement that can't be from the bottom up in terms of facilitating meaningful change, it has to be the top down the bottom up, and it's got to roll around in the middle, that's what I like to say.
Scott Allen 12:24
The bottom-up, and it has to roll around in
Dr. Kelly Peterson 12:26
the middle and the top-down the bottom up, and then it's got to roll around in the middle because the majority of the work actually happens in the middle of an organization, that's where they have the most employees and the generating the most work. So it's got to be top-down, bottom-up, and you know, really juicy roll around in the middle. So the first conversations we have to have been with the leaders. And this is really interesting. So this is where I finally get to your question, the sky looks different. I love it, I have it back.
Scott Allen 13:03
All the way back around,
Dr. Kelly Peterson 13:04
I can only make it around. So really, so what we seek to work with our leaders about is, first of all, what do they feel about this work? Why is this important for them? Why now. And first, we say it as individuals, and then second, as leaders of the organization. Because this is not like teaching executive coaching, teaching coaching, or feedback skill or performance management does it well how you view individuals, this is how you view the environment around you. And the reason why this is important. What you feel about this personally, and then what you feel about it for the organization, is that part of our leader's challenge today is to navigate people through dynamic change. And so you are leading people through change, you're leading them. And oftentimes you're not able to use past models or past performance as a road map, you actually are building a roadmap, people have to trust you, like okay, we're going to go over this cliff, and you have to trust that we're going to build the path as we go. And we're going to be able to hold it up and it's going to work now I don't know how that's gonna happen. But you're gonna have to trust me that this is where we're going. And so who you are matters, people to really interest you in a way that they want to bring their absolute best to building those systems or designing those new solutions are, you know, incorporating those new innovations in meaningful ways. So I tell them that this is just part of the journey of creating an intentional culture to actually facilitate that. Because you have to be intentional in a way that maybe you didn't have to be in the past.
Scott Allen 14:56
Yes, and it requires design and it requires skillful intervention. And in some cases experiments, but are they well thought through experiments that that are again, back to that word intentional. And what are some indicators when you're with an executive? What do you hear out of leader's mouths that make you think, Okay, this, this has potential? And what are some things you hear where you think, Oh, that's a red flag,
Dr. Kelly Peterson 15:21
What we try to do, we try not to judge any of it. Because we consider this an evolving journey. I mean, the one thing I'm hearing consistently, which is to speak, is executive saying, the one thing we do not want is a one and done. Right? Like, this is not a check the box and we are, that just seems to be the call of the day, that employees biggest fears in this, that's one of the first things I have many leaders tell me that this is not a one time that. The other thing we do like to hear is honestly, I don't know where to begin. I think that's great. Right? That's exactly what I say, cuz
Scott Allen 16:12
We're finishing the boat as we leave the harbor.
Dr. Kelly Peterson 16:15
Right, that's exactly what this is! I mean, you know, systemic oppression, which actually exists all over the planet, you know, it exists everywhere. And yeah, every company culture is impacted by you know, where it's located, and where the people are from and the majority of the workforce in so the way I like to couch this is, you know, if I'm thinking about one client, in particular, in the US, this problem looks one way, in Germany, I want you to know, for a fact that exists, and it looks another way. And my favorite thing is I'm from Canada. I've never heard of this before we know this problem, not according to the data.
Scott Allen 16:57
Yeah, yeah. And you know, yes, yes,
Dr. Kelly Peterson 17:01
You very much have the problem of racism in Canada,
Scott Allen 17:06
Residential schools and indigenous populations and their experiences. And yeah, it's
Dr. Kelly Peterson 17:11
Exactly. So a willingness to recognize that I really don't know where to start, that I don't know what to do. But I know we need to do something. I had one leader Tell me, this is a very, very, very successful organization that has continuously provided shareholder value to their shareholders. And, you know, the executives, he's like, you know, have all become very wealthy. And he's like, I never expected to be a wealthy person, but it's become extremely wealthy, doing the work. And he said, My focus has always been on the numbers. But I realized that that's the first half of the company's life. But for the second half of the company's life, I've got to navigate territory that I don't know very well, he said, because, you know, I realized that just focusing on the numbers, is not going to facilitate meaningful growth, as we scale overseas if we expand our product offering to new market segments that are more diverse because I realized that I'm stepping into unknown territory. That's the kind of stuff we'd like to hear. Because that means that the leaders really been thinking about it. And thinking about how this impacts the business, the workforce, the community around them, and kind of what they want to do about it. I'm going to take a breath now.
Scott Allen 18:37
I recorded an episode last summer, shortly after George Floyd's murder with a woman named Karen Gilliam. She's at NASA. And we actually did our PhDs together, and we've had a relationship for a long time. And, and that was a really powerful conversation. And it really set me on a path of trying to learn a lot and really learn this morning. I'm watching documentaries. Well, in recent weeks, I've watched a lot of documentaries. But I've watched this morning, I watched a documentary called Habla on HBO, and Latinx individuals speaking about their experience. I don't know a lot about Latinx culture. I don't know a lot about their history. And so I really committed to set myself on this path of learning is that something else that is is important that people are it's not a one and done But are these individuals expressing to you? Look, I need to learn there are some things I have to learn and I have to better understand. Are you hearing that from some of these leaders as well?
Dr. Kelly Peterson 19:46
Well, that's what we're pushing. You know, I think what happens with leaders, especially executives, you know, many of them are activators. They like to get right into action. Yeah. Okay. Call it Kelly was the first thing that we need to do. Yeah, yeah. The first thing we need to do and I always say the first thing we need to do is slow down the conversation. Nice, we have to slow this conversation down. Because, you know, in the United States, for example, when you're talking about African Americans are indigenous Native Americans, you know, these are conversations that are hundreds of years in the making. Yeah, you know, and so we're not going to solve them, you know, at a four-hour training class, you know, that's not going to happen. And there's nothing I'm going to tell you, in a conversation that's going to change this. So it actually starts with a commitment to learning more. So what we'd like to do is we'd like to start out by giving our leaders kind of a place to start. And the first place I encourage you to start is to search their own stories, start with your own story, start with your own experience, start with people that you know, and then begin to take that out. One challenge that we have in the United States, for example, as it has to do with race, is that race as a construct really only exists for non-whites, whites don't really see themselves as to why they don't see, you know, don't really see themselves as a culture, as a culture of behaviors or norms and values that influence others, people of color, whatever that means that the rest of us see ourselves in racial terms, but whites really don't. And I think what has happened over the last year is kind of been a challenge and kind of reckoning for the white community around really recognizing that the experience outside of them is very, very different. And there's an impact that behavior has or that that level of privilege or lack of understanding, there's an impact that that has on others. And so it's a real challenge to be confronted with that, you know, I remember working with one leader who happened to be from Canada. And I remember in our first conversation, saying, you know, like, I went to university, and we just had no racial problems, none whatsoever, I would say, I would challenge that that's true, I would say that maybe that's true for you, but not necessarily true for others. And later, in a conversation where I heard him sharing, about learning about talking to biracial family members and really being shocked to hear how different their experience was like, he's really shocked by that. And these people he really loves and care about. And I don't want to say more, because it would share it in a poor public formal forum. So but like having those kinds of real conversations with people that you care about, and really getting a sense of how the experience might be different, and then maybe even begin to explore just your own journey is a great way to start. So as part of our engagements, and I want to tell you, Scott, like these, are not the kind of conversations we were having here in Africa. That's what I mean, it's different. Yeah, start with an agenda and talk about and assessments and all that stuff. But I'm saying let's start with an internal assessment. First, let's look at your own life, your own thoughts and feelings because that's going to impact the decisions you make as an executive team because right now, the executive team is overwhelmingly male and white. I don't work with one organization for profit, not for profit, that that's not true. So so you're gonna have to challenge because your biases are going to show up, as you have that conversation internally, as you set your strategies, it's going to show up so so the challenge is going to always be to how do we mitigate that? How do we? How do we somehow challenge ourselves to move beyond our own perceptions? And I would say, it's gonna be really difficult to do that. Unless you have either less you either have people within the team that are able to elevate those challenges in meaningful ways, or you create processes to help you be able to question every decision you make, literally question every decision you make. And you know, leaders are not used to working like that they're used to working really, really quickly. And cooperating with those kinds of processes is painful for action-oriented leaders.
Scott Allen 24:37
And it's just challenging 1000s of assumptions. 10s of 1000s of assumptions implicit that they aren't even aware of your time. They have no in some cases, in some cases, maybe. But I love this. I love this notion of storytelling, and I love the notion of using story as a way to engage and it humanize the topic. And as human beings stories are a powerful part of our existence, and they personify the experience. And if I know you, and you tell me to share a story with me of an experience you've had, that I'm completely unaware of that even exists, right, right. So I was leading, I was leading a session one time, and there were several female executives in the room. And they said, one, one of the women said, Look, I have to wake up. And I spent 510 minutes trying to figure out why would I want to wear because I need to look trendy, but I don't need to look, I can't look suggestive. And that's the thing. And I sat there as the facilitator, I said, "wow," I didn't know that was I, literally my closet, maybe four seconds. And on my way, or, you know, another executive in that session said, Look, every other male member of our senior leadership team can fly to China at the drop of a hat because they have stay-at-home spouses I don't. And that's going to limit and again, so So how many 1000s of things like that exist, that we haven't had to confront, we haven't had to be aware of, we aren't aware of that power of story. And I think it's, I think it's brilliant, because it humanizes, and it brings people in, right, but de-escalates. And this is my lived reality, this is my experience, I imagine it creates a space, energy, where you can get more work done quickly than unloading a 40, slide PowerPoint deck on, you know, cognitive biases. Which I'm always happy to do that too.
At least start with the stories and get people, you know,
Dr. Kelly Peterson 26:58
Oh, that's right. That's right. And in fact, when we talk about biases in the 40s I love that, you know, when we talk about it, we talk about it through stories, through experiences, and what happens in the room is, people start to share their own experiences. And, and then they have their own recognition, like, oh, my goodness, I never really thought of that, that that was happening to me, or that that was happening to that employee, or that I, I was holding that bias in that way. And then even though I know it's a bias I have, and I say that I work to, to make sure it doesn't show up, I really can't trust that was like you really cannot, I really want. So you know, we really have to create environments where we are that we have people that we can trust or build relationships, where feedback is reciprocal so that people have permission to tell you that, hey, you know, you, let's go back to that for a second. Let me ask you when you said that, you know, you're concerned about how this is going to affect her family. Let's go back to that. And let's, I want to know what you meant about that. And because you didn't say about john, and I know he has kids, too, you know, so let's just, you know, you want to create that kind of environment where you can kind of check each other. But not that in some kind of, you know, I got you, but really creating those kinds of environments and spaces where we can have that kind of dialogue because this is the deal. The genies out of the bottle are not going back in. Yeah, the other thing is, we're working in, you know, the growing diversity, you know, people like you and I have been talking about the workforce shifts for the last 1520 years of the workforce is gonna skew younger and more diverse. Well, guess what? We're here. Yeah.
Scott Allen 29:04
And then Gen Z is coming into the workforce, full force, full force are moving into leadership roles at 38 and 39. Roughly, I think those are some of the front end of millennials
Dr. Kelly Peterson 29:16
And boomers are going like really do I need all this aggravation? Boomers are actually leaving to either start their own enterprises, or commit themselves to nonprofit work or, you know, to set sail on something new and adventurous for them. If they can, so, you know, some people are choosing not to go out with it. I'm sure you saw it like 40% of people are looking for jobs are thinking about leaving.
Scott Allen 29:45
Yeah, the numbers. I've seen all kinds of different numbers from different studies. But whether it's Gallup's engagement numbers, which are always fairly atrocious, or yes, some of the numbers even I have students right now. Who, if you don't give me the flexibility of hybrid versus full-time at work versus two or you know, full time at home, I'm not even looking at you as a job opportunity. So the shifts are on a number of fronts, digitization, globalization, social justice, sustainable sustainability, and environmental concerns. We've got staffing and the war for talent like you mentioned. I mean, there are so many seismic shifts right now that - wooof.
Dr. Kelly Peterson 30:30
And so what we like to do is, is we like to say, let's make that one conversation. Yeah. Instead of making them disparate conversations, let's make them because they really aren't one conversation.
Scott Allen 30:40
Say more about that...
Dr. Kelly Peterson 30:42
So you know, it's really about the world getting smaller, us really having to occupy smaller spaces together. And the dependents. You know, Dr. Jean Lipman-Blumen is my guru. I love Jean. She's just when I read connected leadership, she changed my life. Oh my god, somebody like I had in my head, but like, Oh my god, it's like really real. Like, yes. No, and, and when I studied her in graduate school, and then I had like, this crazy friend who was in my cohort was also a personal friend. Like I made him go to graduate school with me, I was like, us, we're gonna get our doctors. He's like, Okay. With together like, I don't want to go by myself. And he's like, he came in with Dan. He said, Hey, I sent Dr. Jean Lipman-Blumen an email. And she responded I'm like, "Wow." You know, at some point I was in, I invited I was invited to her house to meet her. And it was like, I felt like, you know, I think I told you early. My husband's an actor. I felt like I was meeting a movie star by small. I was like, Oh, I love your work. So much, and oh, my gosh. That's great.
Scott Allen 32:16
I had a similar experience. The first leadership book I ever read was Kouzes and Posner's Leadership Challenge. Oh, yeah. It was that one that really Oh, wow, this is a thing people study. I had no clue what's up with this. And so I was interviewing Jim Kouzes. For the podcast. Yes, it was a similar experience. Jim had changed my life.
Dr. Kelly Peterson 32:37
Yes, I mean, just changed my life. And you know, her all discussion around, you know, the challenges of diversity and interdependence. And, you know, how do we bring these two ideas together, and, and just leadership for this era, how it really has to look different, and how a leader really has to be able to bring opposing ideas together in a meaningful way. So that we can move the initiative strategy, whatever culture, whatever that is forward. And I believe she's right. We've had a lot of debates around some of these cons. Yeah, I grew to the point that I could debate with her a little bit. Just a little bit. But to really talk about like, how do we find that space that's going to move us forward? Because we're not going back, whatever back is I had a leader say last year, and in July, like, I'll be glad when things get back to normal, I said, you know, that's not gonna happen, right? There is no norm, we are getting back to anything. Full steam ahead. Right. It's full steam ahead. And so, you know, how do we think in terms of so when I, when I talk about it, you know, I was meeting with a board earlier this week. And they were talking about challenges around what's required around ESG. And, and that was part of the context of the conversation around DEI. And I said, you know, they go together. And so you want to start thinking about, it's really about creating an environment one, this one part about creating an internal environment, where people can be bringing their best to the work and enabled in the good way, not the bad way are enabled to, you know, elevate ideas and thoughts and, you know, and they can do it in a way that they feel like themselves, you know, we're more able to perform when we feel like ourselves when we feel confident and empowered and engaged in meaningful ways. So you know, there's internal and then there's external, the impact that you have on those communities with the products and services you're offering. And then you know, throughout your entire supply chain, like what kind of impact that you're having. And, you know, you're looking at an environmental impact. But you know, you're also looking at a human impact. And only you know why it's important for x company. And this is the key, you have to determine why it's important for you, as the leader of the organization, because I don't care what anybody says your own biases are going to influence decisions and strategy. So first, you have to have clarity around what this means for you. And then what it means for you as the leader of the organization, and the strategy that you all are putting forward. So if you could get yourself to a place where you can see alignment with those things, you're going to move in those directions. If you don't see alignment with those things, if you can envision the possibility of how this is going to support the organization's goals, mission, whatever it is that you know, whatever level you're operating on, you're just not going to move the organization in that in that direction. So first, it has to start with you, then what happens is, as we're having conversations with the people, leaders down the organization, we have the same conversation, because you impact the employee's experience more than the CEO does. The CEO is impacting the organizational strategy, but the actual experience that the employee is having is with your supervisor, with you. So the culture you create in those many cultures, even if it's just you in one direct report, or you as a project leader of the team, that's going to color their experience. And so we're putting accountability, we suggest that the accountability has happened on every level, it starts with awareness. And then knowledge, then abilities, then reinforcement, right? Lewin says that if you're going to change a culture, you first have to unfreeze it right? The hardest thing to do is to unfreeze culture. Except in July/March of 2020.
Scott Allen 37:16
Well, it's those moments in time, I watched another documentary about the four young girls who were killed in the church in Birmingham, Alabama, wait, about two weekends ago, a similar moment, at least for whites in the history of the United States, maybe when they see African Americans being hosed down in the streets of Birmingham, or they see people being pulled off of chairs, and that the john lewis good trouble documentary, it's horrible, horrible footage, that all of a sudden, Oh, my gosh, I can't, I can't, in a moment shifts perspectives in horrible ways, right? But it and the video of George Floyd is another one of those moments that instantaneously can shift perspectives. And, and hopefully, take us to new places, better places, more just places, so that everyone can thrive so that everyone has an opportunity to thrive and live into whatever they're here on this planet to become Right.
Dr. Kelly Peterson 38:22
Exactly. And I think what's interesting about that is I can't help but wonder if we weren't in the middle of a pandemic if it would have had the impact that it did. Because I think because we were at home, we were on one of our computer screens or our television set. And we were not commuting and going from here to there and picking up kids from soccer and, you know, you know what I mean?
Scott Allen 38:52
You're sitting with it,
Dr. Kelly Peterson 38:53
it's you're sitting with it, you're kind of forced to sit with it. And I think people saw something that they hadn't seen before, even though we have video of other people being murdered or injustice in ways that's really hard to challenge even though it's been challenged. I think it was a moment in time. And because and this is where I say it's all connected, right? Me and mycolleagues, we're calling this the great unfreezing because it's not just our perceptions around what's happening for others, people of color, for example, or, you know, the elevation of the challenge of a black trans woman or, you know, all those intersectionalities and the impacts of people's experiences, but also how we work and froze, how we interact. unfroze how we, how we socialize unfroze how we buy groceries, unfroze everything in our daily lives, literally unfroze Yeah. And so now we're in the change phase, as saw the opportunity when we come back and we're already getting, some of it is whispering some of his yelling. Now I've had HR leaders telling me, I can't believe that the CEO is telling me that, you know, we need to put together strategy to bring, you're invited back to work. I don't want to come back to the office, you know, it's an HR, like, right to the top, it's I had a chief HR officer say to me, like, Kelly, how am I going to tell you that? I've moved?
Scott Allen 40:34
I'm no longer in Albuquerque I live in...
Dr. Kelly Peterson 40:38
I'm not in LA anymore. Like, how am I gonna tell him? I think he should just tell him and, you know, she told him and he had to go, like, because he needs her, and she's vital to the organization. He's like, we'll just have to figure it out. But she's like, you know, I want to own a home, I want to, I want a different quality of life. And so, you know, during the pandemic, she and her family moved to Texas, and she didn't tell her boss, and she's an executive, we're gonna have to change. Yeah, our smart organizations are going to have to change
Scott Allen 41:19
Well, into your point, there's a lot of opportunities there, a number of different dimensions, and a number of different dimensions, there's a lot of opportunities there. Because the organizations that I mean, just for the example of the students that I shared with you a little bit ago, the organizations that are flexible, that really focus more on the results of the employee versus where they're sitting for four hours on a Tuesday morning, or what time they're sitting there, there's greater I had a former student of mine, who's in a high tech firm in Pittsburgh, they just hired someone from Europe to be their chief technology officer. And I totally opened up the globe of opportunities of talent, right? So there are opportunities here on a number of different dimensions, but I really resonate with your approach of storytelling, and what is your story? And why is this important to you? Why is this important is work important to your organization? And having people check in with that? I think it's beautiful. I really do. Ultimately, many experiments need to be run similar to what was happening with COVID, to find the vaccine, many experiments have to be run to see how we get somewhere new.
Dr. Kelly Peterson 42:36
Yeah. And when it has to do with people, we know that that work is a little more challenging.
Scott Allen 42:44
Just add humans, right?
Dr. Kelly Peterson 42:45
That's right, just add humans...and you know, and obviously, we're doing, we're doing some other kind of assessment works we're doing, you put together a tool that we're working on, we're beta testing it, and we call it the Employee Lifecycle Assessment, where we are assessing, assessing those different touchpoints of an employee lifecycle. So we're looking at your brand, your attraction process, like how are you branding your organization, and then we're looking at your, your, obviously recruitment, and then hiring, onboarding, performance management, engagement, rewards and recognition, and then exiting because, at the end of the day, we want to assess Like, who do we attract? And why? Do you know who's successful here? Why, and why not? Yeah, and who leaves? Why. So you can begin to look at where in the organization, the disconnect happens. And so that's the that's part of the process work that we're doing with HR practices. And then, you know, we also will supplement those assessments with focus groups and interviews and employee surveys, engagement surveys, to see where's the disconnect between these are the processes and practices we have, versus this is my experience. So, people, organizations can be able to assess where are the challenges, that's more typical OD work, but I think the assessment is a little bit different because it's also an engagement tool is designed for an HR group to go through that process together to see where the gaps and holes. And we just presented that in IOLA on Friday. And it was really interesting, some of the feedback we got from organizations around the challenge of really identifying where the systemic, the systemic issues lie within the organization. And so obviously, that's also a part of the work we're doing. But I think this front-end workaround awareness and that assessment. is also part of the awareness space, like, Where's their problem in terms of processes, but the human stuff is the really interesting stuff to really explore and to process people through. It's just really interesting work.
Scott Allen 45:15
Well, I have incredible respect. And as we wind down for the day, I always ask guests, what have you been watching reading, or streaming? Something that's caught your eye in recent months, it doesn't have anything to do with, it doesn't have to have anything to do with what we've just discussed. But what's catching your eye? What have you been watching?
Dr. Kelly Peterson 45:39
Do I really acknowledge this?!
Scott Allen 45:43
Yes! It doesn't have to have anything to do with what we've just discussed, something that listeners might be interested in!
Dr. Kelly Peterson 45:49
is two things I just finished that I really have to admit I enjoyed. One was was High on the Hog on Netflix, which I think is really interesting. And it's really the part of the history of African American food from slavery in Africa and the influence that Africa had on American cuisine. Oh wow, really interesting. I would say do not watch it if you're hungry. Cuz it will make you eat but high on the hog I thought was really interesting. And I have to say, I just finished watching Never Have I Ever is a total teen show. You know, I've been watching these teen shows and I've been watching him for a couple of reasons. One, I'm really interested in just exploring culture, teen culture, I want to know what young people are looking at. I want to know their conversations. And you know, African is the comedian. She's East Indian, of East Indian descent. She's the writer, executive producer of the show. And so, you know, I love this point of view of this young Middle School, East Indian American Girl, I just found it delightful. Do not judge me I don't I have to be honest with you. The other thing is that I just find that whatever I'm watching has to be fair because the work is so intense. And it's just so intense. And some of my favorite shows I cannot watch right now because they're just, it's just too deep and is too close to home. So I'm just watching entertainment. So that's what I'm watching. What am I reading right now, I'm pretty much-reading everything I possibly can on TV. That's all my time cruising the internet and you know, reading I'm not reading anything in particular right now. And, and in terms of what I am listening to my always listen to This American Life because I just love that my, I'll be honest, I didn't share this. I'm a storyteller. I write nonfiction. And I'm really a storyteller. So I love that format. But I'm actually listening to Miles Davis kind of blew it just for some reason, that album just ignites my creativity in a way that nothing else does. And when I'm going through a creative period, and the work is very creative right now, because you you're trying to find meaningful, creative solutions to things that I find myself really inspired by that music in particular.
Scott Allen 48:33
Well, it's so wonderful, at least for me. I do a lot of my creative work on music as well. In fact, it actually helps me get into "flow." So it's so wonderful when I can find pieces of music that literally I stop hearing after a couple of moments but I float on Yeah, sometimes.
Dr. Kelly Peterson 48:56
Yes, that album destiny I don't know. I wrote my dissertation to that album and I said over and over. And I did not know why. It does something to the neurons in my brain but it just works for me.
Scott Allen 49:13
Well Kelly, thank you so much for being with us today. We really appreciate it and thank you for the great work that you do. Say hello to sunny Los Angeles for us. And really...
Dr. Kelly Peterson 49:24
It's really beautiful today sorry sky. It's gorgeous!
Scott Allen 49:30
I just imagined myself looking at the Getty looking over the city on a clear day. Well, thank you so much, Kelly. We appreciate it.
Dr. Kelly Peterson 49:38
Thank you, Scott. You are is your a lot of fun.
Scott Allen 49:42
Have a great day.
Dr. Kelly Peterson 49:43
You too. Bye-bye!
Transcribed by https://otter.ai