Laura Guilliam manages leadership research and development projects at Progressive Insurance. Her primary interest is the individual and cultural impact of emotionally intelligent leaders—creating and sustaining positive organizational relationships within virtual and in-office work environments. Laura brings 26 years of practitioner experience to the ongoing study of organizational development and change.
She holds a Bachelor of Arts in Education from the University of Akron, a Master of Science in Project Management from Boston University, and a Master of Science in Positive Organizational Development and Change from Case Western Reserve University. She also earned a certificate of Appreciative Inquiry in Positive Business and Societal Change and a certificate in Emotionally Intelligent Leadership and Executive Coaching at CWRU. Laura is currently working on her Executive Ph.D. in Values-Driven Leadership from Benedictine University, Chicago.
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Laura Guilliam manages leadership research and development projects at Progressive Insurance. Her primary interest is the individual and cultural impact of emotionally intelligent leaders—creating and sustaining positive organizational relationships within virtual and in-office work environments. Laura brings 26 years of practitioner experience to the ongoing study of organizational development and change.
She holds a Bachelor of Arts in Education from the University of Akron, a Master of Science in Project Management from Boston University, and a Master of Science in Positive Organizational Development and Change from Case Western Reserve University. She also earned a certificate of Appreciative Inquiry in Positive Business and Societal Change and a certificate in Emotionally Intelligent Leadership and Executive Coaching at CWRU. Laura is currently working on her Executive Ph.D. in Values-Driven Leadership from Benedictine University, Chicago.
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Note: Voice to text transcriptions are about 90% accurate.
Scott Allen 0:03
Laura Gilliam. So I just mentioned the restaurant Taza. And you were one of the last people that I actually had a meal with live. And we had this really fun conversation. We were talking about remote workers; we were talking about virtual leadership, we were talking about where potentially, we're gonna take some of your studies and your Ph.D. program. And here we are, months later. I mean, this was likely I could look at the data was probably last February.
Laura Guilliam 0:33
Yeah. Right before the big March 12, or wherever you may live. That date...
Scott Allen 0:38
Yes. So, everybody, we have Laura Gilliam on the podcast today. She has she's at the Progressive Corporation. And she is an OD and research consultant in that organization. And I'm excited. She's also a Ph.D. candidate. So we have a reflective practitioner, we have a practitioner-scholar, we have someone who's at the intersection of a couple of different places. And I'm really excited about this conversation, Laura, maybe share a little bit more about you. And then we'll jump into virtual relationships and leadership and organizational relationships in this new world. It's gonna be a lot of fun.
Laura Guilliam 1:20
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, thanks. I'm honored to be here; it's nice to actually be on this side of it. I'm obviously a fan of your program. So it's great to be sitting here with you talking on this side of it. Obviously, leadership is something I love and feel passionate about. So again, it's great to talk with someone who studies and transfers that type of knowledge to others, I spent a great deal of time, as you mentioned, doing this within the organization. So that makes me a practitioner/scholar. So I live in those spaces. And so I love digging into a theory of leadership and, and all the nuances that surround that wonderful topic and all the tough work that everybody's doing, especially now in that space. And with Progressive, they have committed to digging into the social side of that. So this is a company that really focuses on the utilization of technology and the design of great products and services. Right? Very strategy driven. So for them to dedicate time and effort to the social science of leadership makes me feel so cool. And more. Yeah, yes, yes.
So that's my life right now. So it combines it's, it's my purpose because I love studying relationships, at all dimensions. So you know, all your relationships from what you do at home, how you're a father, husband, friend, how you interact with your community, and all dimensions of your leadership, wherever that may fall to you in the classroom. So I like studying that in a progressive, I do the same thing. I like knowing about people. First of all, I believe everyone at progressive is a leader; whether their title holds that or not, leadership is all-encompassing, right. So some people are leaders in the PTA, some people are leaders, you know, with our frontline, some our leaders in our social responsibility efforts or D&I efforts, but everybody's a leader. So I like studying that exploring that digging into that with people and really understanding the emotional side of leadership, the emotional intelligence, the relational components of why do people fall in love? Or why do people feel loyalty or respect, or trust towards certain people? And how do those degrees change? That's really interesting. So, yeah, it's everything. It's who I am as a mom, it's who I am, hopefully, is a wife and friend, and it's definitely something that I am passionate about in my workplace.
Scott Allen 4:00
Well, and when I think of Progressive, I've had Trisha Griffith, the CEO in class before, and she's such a wonderful presenter, she's such a wonderful soul, such an incredible energy. She's been, I believe it was Forbes' Business Person of the Year, came up through the HR kind of operations pathway. And we'll have lunch with, with employees, and people know her and meets with every incoming group of new hires and shares her thoughts and perspectives on leadership. And so, at least within that organization, what I've absolutely loved about my interaction with people at progressive is that you can feel the energy and the passion for the organization. And the last time she spoke in class, I basically had a transcript of the presentation. I just said, "you need to write a book."
Laura Guilliam 4:53
She really does. She does. Yeah, she's amazing, right. So she makes my work. Easy, she's our daily source of inspiration. So all of us can write about the poor leaders we had in our life. And we've learned tremendous things from them. Right? And, and unfortunately, we have those in our life. But hopefully, we can pull the good and, and learn from that. But when you're working in an organization that has an amazing leader, who just gets it, who appreciates people put people first, like Tricia does, the way you interact with leadership is completely different. So I'm not afraid I don't shy away from poor leadership. I love studying that and seeing To what degree we can, you know, snuff that out? That's my goal. But when you see someone like Trisha, and I get to see her daily, even in a virtual world, how she is generating positive inspiration to her people across the country, that's just fun and exciting to study. And that will be the source of most of my work, how do we take what Trisha offers and, and what she does every day and spread that knowledge and that expertise and allow people to, to do the same in their own unique way. So she's just, she's amazing. I'm very lucky in that space.
Scott Allen 6:13
Well, and you just said something that was really where I would love to go this kind of even in a virtual space? What are you exploring? What are you thinking about right now, either on an academic side or just an organizational side, when it comes to virtual relationships? Because Progressive is such a relationship-based organization already...What are some of your observations that you've, that you've made in recent months?
Laura Guilliam 6:39
Yeah, great question. So I was studying this before this pandemic, and social crisis and in the political division, all this happen, right. And that has added just complexity issues that have allowed us to dig in even deeper. But prior to that, you're right; we are a company that believes that relationships are the core of everything. We believe in trying to figure out how to build relationships with our customers, not just acquire more, but have them fall in love with the company that protects them. The same thing with our people, we want people to come to work and be not just proud of what they do, but fall in love with their workspace and have the opportunity to build relationships and leave them and have friendships, to really have a relationship with their organization because of the amount of time they spend there. And because it just makes you feel great as a person. This whole crisis has shifted my research and shifted Progressive. So we have the luxury within our company of having beautiful buildings with wonderful...probably one of the largest private collection of art, you know, in the nation, and then events, really fun, great events for employees celebrating their milestone anniversaries, celebrating birthdays, celebrating retirements, people coming in, we obviously we have the naming rights of Progressive Field. So we participated fully in that with opening day and events. Throughout that, we were a very physical relationship company. And by that, I mean, we interacted with each other. Even if you didn't work at headquarters, there's buildings across the country; people would, you know, travel to be together, we'd have team meetings. Yeah, physical events together, we're very important. And all of us are feeling this, right. So if you don't have to be with your family, or you've had to distance to protect, there is something that's happened, and what it what happened at progressive that I'm studying is, we had to let go of that, right. So all of us were sent home 43,000 people, most for the most part, were sent home. And so we didn't have that physical space keeping us together. And then our events, we couldn't have our events. So those were taken away. And then even things like tchotchkes like our progressive t-shirts or jackets, those things sounds silly, but those are relational items. You know, it's like wearing your, your college alma mater t-shirt for the game and stuff that creates pride.
Scott Allen 9:07
Laura, when I, I have never gotten a better bag of tchotchkes. Then when I spoke to Progressive I mean, I came home, and I was like kids, you know, and I'm handing them dolls of flow and all kinds of flow things. And, you know, it was just, I agree with you. I've lived that. Yes.
Laura Guilliam 9:28
Yeah, it's fun. It's fun when I walk down the street on Halloween, and I see people wearing Flo costumes like there are...it's just a sense of pride when you see that, and all that was taken away, Scott and what we were left with the one thing that COVID didn't take from us was relationships. And so that's what we have. And that's what we're left with in, and obviously it's a passion point of mine. And so for two reasons. I'm very concerned with that one. How do I protect help my leaders protect those relationships when they don't have the support of their surrounding meetings and the opportunity to build events, even pulling people into a room to talk really quick. We have video communication, and we have relationships to things. So how do we sustain those relationships that were so strong before? Can we sustain them? Can they and people are questioning like, Can we have great relationships, without being together without feeling the energy we do without shaking hands or giving a hug or saying hi, or grabbing a cup of coffee together? Those are big concerns for everybody. But especially with us because we did not realize how dependent we were on that. So this is a really critical time for us to figure out how do we protect what we built, and we're living off of residual of what we had before. So as new people come in, and they've never seen or experienced all that stuff, will we be able to have them feel that will leaders be able to connect them with an organization the same way they did before? I think yes, but I think it's gonna take a lot of creativity. And some really, relational ingenuity, is what I call it. So that's what I'm studying. And that's what, that's where my worlds intersect between Progressive business and schooling.
Scott Allen 11:18
So say a little bit more. I love that phrasing relational ingenuity. Would you talk a little bit more about that, right? Or did you just literally make it up? And now?
Laura Guilliam 11:28
I know I had to jot that down like, oh, maybe that's my research topic. Well, there are two words I do use its relational physics and relational ingenuity. Yeah. So relational physics is just every word, every interaction, even you and I right now. So you're right, we used to be able to go have lunch, or have a cup of coffee and talk and generate, brainstorm, and, and just have, you know, fun dialogue, casual interactions, a lot of people, and you get energy from that, because just the physicality of that, right. But your words still held a positive and negative charge when you popped online, and I got to greet you, and you could, you know, come out with a smile, and you say, Hello, that's positive energy, that creates inspiration for me. So what I need to do is just pay attention to those words and behaviors that are leaders. So in a leadership role, you're the leader of this podcast, right? So what you say and what you do probably holds more weight than when I say or do so understanding that and you're managing that and knowing that you have the capability of giving me energy, through your leadership of this podcast, and also through which words, actions and gestures that you make, and knowing that you only have this limited space to do it, you got this little screen, and the total amount of time, and then we're done. And then I walk away with everything that you've given me. And if you've given me, you know, 10 little atoms of positive relational energy, I get to use that for my next relationship. Right? So I go into the kitchen and I'm happy with the kids. They start giving me positive energy, and it's residual. So leader, physical, relational physics, with from a leader standpoint is really important in the ingenuity of that is what I mean, like, yeah, before March 12, I keep using that date, because that's the one I remember, in Ohio, when the government came out, and everything stopped, and we're like, wow, this can be a rough two weeks.
Scott Allen 13:15
Yes.
Laura Guilliam 13:17
I mean, two years, right. So we're like, wow, how are we going to do this? And here we are, we've been relationally. We've had relational ingenuity; somehow Zoom entered our vocabulary. And now it's not just a word, it's our tool. Who knows what tomorrow's tools will be? Who knows, you know, but we will figure it out because we are human beings who thrive on relationships. And so we will start to come up with creative ways. We're already doing that, right? We're coming up with creative ways to stay connected and build our relationships. So I'd like to tap into that and see how leaders are getting creative. I've observed them pop in on Zooms, I interview them, and I try to really see you'd be amazed at what these people are figuring out to keep their folks together and keep them feeling good, and, and in the game and all that kind of stuff. So that's some of the stuff I'm interested in.
Scott Allen 14:15
Well, I was reflecting on this the other day...my wife and I walk every day. And so we get outside, and we connect, and we just get some exercise and have really really good conversations. And we were talking about feelings of isolation and feelings because you and I talked about that. That isolation that employees can feel when they're remote, right? We had that conversation at lunch the last time we met. But when I think about this podcast, you'd mentioned this podcast. What's so interesting is I'm probably having one or two or three conversations a week. So this right now is filling my bucket. Two days ago, I spoke with Brad Jackson, who's in New Zealand, and that filled my bucket. So in a weird way, this has kept me connected. It's helped me network; it's helped me build current relationships I have, make new relationships. It's been this really So, in a sense, it's been kind of an ingenious way. I didn't know I was doing this. But it's been a way for me to stay connected and actually thrive. Right? Because I've built relationships with people, I never would have had relationships with because of this medium. So this medium was literally born out of me being on a treadmill and thinking, "I need something to do with my mind" around March 12.
Laura Guilliam 15:37
Such a great example. And you're humble about it, Scott, but that is relational ingenuity. You have taken even a tool that existed that maybe we weren't using as robustly, or maybe you added some rigor to it. And you're right; you're connecting people. I have used podcasts here and there, you're like, reignited my passion around podcasts. I have a list now of podcasts I listen to yours is top. But yeah, like that's pretty impressive. Like you've inspired folks to reconnect with a tool that allows them to go for a walk and learn about something they love, or, or hear a conversation and connect with someone they would have never connected with except for the fact you brought them in. So that's just great.
Scott Allen 16:21
Well, and again, it wasn't by design, it's just been a happy, happy accident that this is one way because again, my wife will say, "Well, I feel cut off," and I and I don't know, I feel like I'm still connecting with people and getting that bucket filled in that way. I will go upstairs because I'm in my basement after this and help get dinner ready. And, and I'll feel ready for the evening. It's just it's energizing. And so, what other tactics have you seen? Have you come across some unique approaches that you've seen some leaders use? What comes to mind?
Laura Guilliam 16:56
So I think companies are helping like, like, for example, some of the recording opportunities and different technology you've used to even have this show, right? American Greetings is I don't even know if I'm allowed to plug companies, and I don't own stock in. So I'm not, but sure you're
Scott Allen 17:15
Sure, talk about AG!
Laura Guilliam 17:16
They have an E-card service that you can put people's names in and they've got stars, and you can send a greeting card to Scott Allen because now I can't, you know, give it to you in person, I could mail it, but online, I can send it, and you know Shaq is saying your name and happy birthday or Donny Osmand is singing to you like, that's creative, that stuff like technology is helping us get fun, you're probably using Instagram or different things that your kids are using that you'd never use. But now to get fun and get in the game with them. Or to send something to students or something you're using different tools for that. I'd say people are even figuring out ways to use older tools to like writing like we were reconnecting with the old fashion writing and sending of cards and, and things. You know, these creative things you're seeing on the news, with people driving by and holding signs or teachers figuring out how to connect with their students and doing these car parades or birthdays. There isn't we don't have a laundry list now. But if you just look around you for one day, you will see at least five to ten examples of people either using something we used to use before and reconfiguring it to meet the needs, or coming up with something totally new. Now Zoom was kind of news. We didn't even use those words, right? And now, none of us have my mother knows the term Zoom. That's, that's really exciting, though, you know, and it's allowing us once we figure out the balance of "how do I create distance between my work and my home?" Or "how do I renew myself without as much physical connection." And then when re-entry happens, and we figure this out, and maybe it won't be as accelerated as we had hoped. But how do we live in that space like this change over the next two years will demand that we get resilient and creative with the relationships, and those are the things that I will be studying from an academic standpoint and transfer to an organizational standpoint.
Scott Allen 19:22
Well, even as you were just speaking, I, our daughters, had a birthday party parade. And it was one of their best birthday parties ever. We have situations where our girls will have three different like a laptop and an iPad and another laptop, and they'll have friends on Zooms, and they'll be playing games together and connecting that's been...my son, of course, is on Xbox, and that's not anything new, but he's that's a medium that he's connecting with some of his folks and then....I've had this really fun kind of small group of people Where we've been testing virtual escape rooms, or we've done a couple of the simulations from Harvard Business publishing. And so there's an Everest simulation, and there's a, it's called Patient Zero, and there's a food truck simulation. So all of those have been really interesting, cool ways to...again, just explore in this new space, because I think, and then even when I think of the classroom, I have a whole speaker series this spring, a gentlemen from Tesla in California, another gentleman from a biotech company in California, people from all over the world who are going to be presenting, and that never would have happened kind of in that previous space. So it's that both/and right, but I love that term relational ingenuity...
Laura Guilliam 20:48
You look at companies like peloton, right? Or, yes, Nordic Trek, and they're allowing you to bike across the country, right? You could all of a sudden, I can bike in Italy. I can row you know, in England, I can like there's there are things that we are doing from a leading space, again, with leadership being all of us that we're taking control of, and not being "done unto" we're leading in the space. And we're figuring out how to come together and how to create these relational experiences. We'll figure this out; we will figure it out. Can it be as good as in person? I don't know. Me a year ago would have said, "no way, you can't replace..." that? I don't know. I don't know. I have hope and trust in some of the things that we're doing, like you're mentioning.
Scott Allen 21:37
Well, I think it's a both/and, right. I mean, it's right. There are some new options that are available to us. Yeah, again, we had my wife's whole family on a Zoom for just an hour before Christmas Eve, and that never would have happened that everyone would have shared space together because certain people were in different places around the country and North America. But this afforded that opportunity to occur. So yeah, what else? What else? Are you exploring and seeing Laura...
Laura Guilliam 22:09
So I'll tell you this another thing, even at Progressive, we try to everybody should feel as equal as possible, but you can't get away from, you know, the hierarchy of the organization understanding, you know, different leadership roles, and in the frontline, feeling like they don't sit at the table or whatnot. I think one of the great things that have happened that I'd love to tap into and research is we've kind of flattened the hierarchy. So now everybody's at home, everybody's experiencing the same thing. Everybody's communicating, you don't have to live at headquarters to get promoted, hopefully, you know, and that used to be, hey, if you for our company, and this is what a lot of companies if you want to get promoted if you want those high-level jobs, you went those leadership jobs, you got to go to where the headquarters is. Unfortunately for our folks, it's in Cleveland. I'm kidding. I'm just saying that because it's cold right now. I love Cleveland. But, but in all honesty, like now, that opens the diversity of who can be a leader, possibly this, yes, puts us all a little more even. And we're all using the same techniques, we're all having the same struggles, you know, and I'll give you examples. Since you use Trisha, Trisha used to do these updates all the time, keep us informed on the business updates. And she, you know, was a CEO sitting in our studio giving the updates. Now, she was doing a home video with her son shooting it in your library at her house in a progressive t-shirt, she would talk about business results, how to hang in there, how we're going to support the customer, you know, societal updates. And then, in the end, she would talk about her own personal Hey, I'm struggling with m&ms and cheese balls. And she's exposed herself we have a relational connection that we never had before this. Some people would have never seen Trisha. Anyway, they live in California, they live in us, they would have never seen her now they see her in her house, in their house. So there are some things we would like to explore, like, is this great for the mindset of employees, and that it kind of levels the playing field, you know, do students feel like hey, my professors going through the same thing I am, you know, I really hate not being together and that there's nothing that will replace some of that stuff. But some of this really makes us more equal. And we're all writing a new playbook. We're dealing with things that nobody's ever had to deal with in our lifetime before. Right? So together, we're writing about what leadership looks like and what we need tomorrow from leadership, and we'll be at the forefront. But I will tell you; it will never deviate from being relational. We've learned right how important if anything, is put relationships at the table. It's COVID how important those relationships are in leadership outside of leadership. It has elevated the importance and the value for all All of us, they can take our jobs, they can label us essential non-essential, but relationships Trumble.
Scott Allen 25:07
It's the glue, right? It's the glue. It's the glue; it's that connectivity is the connective tissue that that. And when they are not present, it's damaging, and it can be toxic, and when they are present, and that this doesn't mean that they're easy all the time. And I end up being kind of overly optimistic and naive, right? Yes. I mean, you can feel that when that connective tissue is healthy.
Laura Guilliam 25:36
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting that you brought up isolation. And, you know, we know that depression. I mean, a lot of that is just the heaviness of a pandemic and the social unrest. So those are things we have to pay very close attention to that those are all the relationship with ourselves. That's become more important to right? We're a lot of times we have time, more time with ourselves. So we can sit in and see what's that relationship, like, is it where I want it to be? So allow, this has been kind of like, an aha moment to reflect. But then there are people who maybe don't have four kids running around or don't have it, you know, and they are by themselves. There are some people to who, you know, the introverts are like, thank you, this is so great, I get some space, I don't have to socialize or go to happy hour. And if I do, I can click out of it. So finally, they who were the introverts who are uncomfortable forever in this extrovert world, or like Thank you, but then the in the extroverts are struggling like they're, they've lost some of that energy. So we want to pay attention and, and make sure that everybody is taken care of that we do pay attention and don't make light and tell people, hey, we look for the silver lining when they're actually suffering. That part is very real, want to pay attention, and in organizations, leaders have a commitment to pay attention and dig into those things that sometimes we felt were none of our business. It's our business. Hmm.
Scott Allen 27:04
What's interesting about what you just said, an observation or an aha that I have had, just even on the show, if we were to kind of just go with the people who prefer extraversion versus the people who prefer introversion...this experience has very much taken what was very much an extroverted experience, especially in my classes where you have to be engaged, you have to talk, it's experiential, it's active, and almost swung the pendulum this other way, whereas a lot of online discussion posts and reflection posts. And so it's been really interesting to observe maybe some of the limitations I previously had...I wasn't creating a space for people who maybe wanted to be more reflective and think through how they were going to respond to something because I have read some beautiful reflections. And what was interesting is, the pendulum swung so far, that way that I had a student last spring, say, you know, there were a couple missed opportunities to really have some powerful conversations as a team. And I thought, wow, because I swung too far over here. Yeah. And, you know, again, I think even when we do go back to face to face live, I'm going to be able to better balance and create some experiences in the classroom to meet that learning style and learning preference.
Laura Guilliam 28:28
Wow.
Scott Allen 28:29
that's so interesting.
Laura Guilliam 28:31
Yeah, that's a great insight. And you think you're right; it's how we do that all the time. Right. So let me swing we go from one extreme to the other. And what this is, is going to call upon us, especially as leaders, is to find that balance, right? To have that relational balance and the business expertise, balance, and to have that appreciation for those who love to connect. And to have that appreciation for those who need some space or time to reflect. It's, it's really exposed us to understanding and appreciating the importance of balance all the way around, you know, maybe we don't have family get togethers. Every single holiday, maybe now we do, you know, one or two, just us or just friends, you know, kind of that? I don't know, and some people are like, Are you crazy? We're gonna make a family. I get it. But it will at least have us pause and wonder, "Hey, is this right or it will land, I believe, into that balance. Balanced leadership is kind of what I'm phrasing my research right now where we want an appreciation for exactly what you're saying.
Scott Allen 29:34
Well, I know you are a fan of the work of Richard Boyatzis. And I know I need to have I need to invite him on the podcast at some point. Yeah. Would you share some of your insights because we've spent a lot of time talking about relationships and his notion of positive emotional attractors and negative emotional tractors and just help listeners kind of understand that concept because that's important. That's critical.
Laura Guilliam 30:00
Yeah, that's a game-changer. And you know what, that's something we don't need fancy tools. For I love tools, but this is something you can just sit and interact with, you could do, you know, use a notebook or a journal to kind of pay attention to. And this is a game-changer in life in general. So this is I did learn this from Richard Boyatzis, and Melvin Smith. And this whole notion, as I said before about relational physics, and what that means is, again, everything that you say and do has a positive or negative charge, very few things have a neutral charge, you know, when you lay your head down tonight, and you say, "today was a good day," you will know that you had an abundance of positive emotional tractors that more positive things happened and you feel good about the day if you lay your head down tonight, heaven forbid you lay your head down, you go "God, thank God, today's over," you will know that you may have had just a little bit of overshoot on the negative emotional attractors, it could be, you know, your meetings didn't go, your WiFi went out, the dog was barking when you're talking, it could be a series of things that you have received as negative emotional tractors. And so what Richard teaches is just the minute you start paying attention to that, the minute I start paying more attention to how I talk to you, and what charged does each of my words, my behaviors, my actions have an in virtual, that is critical, right? So if I only have five minutes with you, and I don't pay attention to that, and I deliver three, you know, I tell you three critical things like you should have done this, why didn't you do that. And, and I leave, that's what I left you with, you know, and then again, when you lay down, and you're this bucket of positive, emotional is next to you, and it's filled with an abundance of negative, that you wake up with that it doesn't just disappear unless you somehow magically resolve it all in your sleep, but you wake up, and then that carries forward. So this is really important, because some, there may be some negative emotional attractors you've been carrying around for years, because your coach said something or, or a professor gave you feedback or something, and it just devastated you. And because of how you cared about them or the value you placed on them, you're carrying that around, and you have figured out how to resolve that. So Richard teaches, "hey, our interactions have positive and negative charges, our words and positive and negative charges, our gestures have positive and negative charges. If you're responsible, and you care about the relationships, you will mindfully pay attention to how many of those you deliver." And even a constructive conversation can still be positive. As long as you know, I care about you, or I'm trying to help you get better. So it's not saying we just have to talk about rainbows and unicorns all the time; that's saying, do I care? And do I care enough to think through what I'm going to say? Or do I just unleash emotionally to serve myself. So this is really important in the leadership, really important in the virtual space, to pay attention to these most positive and, and negative charges, rarely will you lay your head down at night and say, Gosh, today was completely neutral, I had neither good nor bad, no negative experience that you won't say it just doesn't happen. So someone is delivering to you. All day long. Now you're responsible for some of that how you process it. But in large part, anyone who comes in interaction has a responsibility to take good care of you with their words and their actions and paying attention. Does this have a negative charge? Or does this have a positive charge or checking back in and saying, "Hey, I just want to I know that was that was hard to hear, I just want to check in with you." So these are kinds of things that we're teaching, in our virtual leadership, paying it's 101 virtual 101, pay attention to the positive and negative that you deliver day in and day out to your people because they're getting bombarded with negative all day long. So what are you doing to help them get through that?
Scott Allen 33:45
I love it. That's awesome. So well put, so well put. Now, Laura, I mentioned at the beginning that you are a Ph.D. candidate, you're getting you are getting your PhD. I'm sure there are listeners who have put that goal on their radar; maybe there's people who have that goal down the road, and they're working full time. So would you just share a little bit about your experiences of, of what are the benefits of working and doing the Ph.D. that you found? And there may be some challenges as well. Yeah, but I would just love to I would love our listeners to hear a little bit about your experience because it's such a powerful combination of the practice and the theory and combining those two, right?
Laura Guilliam 34:34
Yeah, I think that'll be a growing field. You're a scholar/practitioner, also. I think that's growing. So a lot of times you were either a scholar or you're a practitioner, and sometimes those worlds mix, but not often. And now it seems to be growing, and the beauty of that will mean that it's not just the number one bestseller, it's articles, its work, its research. There's so much fantastic work done in the academic field that needs to get in the hands of practitioners. And so the passion grew. And I like many people like yourself; I'm just a lifelong learner. I'll never be happy. My family keeps saying, "When will you stop?" So I said, "this will be the stop," but who knows. But yeah, you we're all we all have that insatiable need to know more to do more. Mine happens to be in the space of academics. It's hard. It's challenging, but again, it definitely serves my purpose, what I want to do, I love, I love learning, I love growing, and I love sharing that with others, I love doing it for others. I love serving others in that way. So it was a natural course for me. And every time that I'm cursing it at two o'clock in the morning because I got a paper due. The next morning, I wake up, and I feel like this was this was the right thing to do. So when you invest in a way that aligns your purpose and your passion, I know there's posters or rocks or all those things. But the truth of the matter is when that those connect, there, there is nothing that feels better than when you're doing that. So those two have connected for me, I love learning predominantly about leadership. I love sharing about leadership, and I love supporting leaders it...I think it's one of the hardest, most selfless jobs and I love supporting people who've invested and said, "I want to lead people." So that's what I've made my mission, and I will always serve that group. But yeah, it's it's a tough go. If anybody ever has questions, feel free to reach out; you did the same thing, I believe. So. It's not an easy road. And regardless of what's happened, I am an in-person learner and was forced to learn virtually now. It's it's actually been pretty incredible. But yeah, if you've got that tingling in your belly, or you've always wanted to do it, I say, "do it now." Because the only thing that I've ever heard people say that they have kind of thought about it is I wish I'd done it sooner. And that's the only thing I say try not to have too many regrets. But I wish I would have done it sooner. I wish I would have been brave enough or courageous enough to just do it sooner. So yeah, if you feel that or you hear that voice in the back of your head, at least explore it. Look out, there's so many great programs or so many diverse leadership, programs, and specialties in the Ph.D. space, and contributing to the practice contributing to the theory and the practice is a gift to leaders. They love it.
Scott Allen 37:42
I agree with you 100%. It's difficult. In Korea, I have so much respect when I meet someone like Trisha Griffith from progressive or when I meet individuals who are leading Chris Gorman at Key Bank. I just have such great, great respect for the work that they're doing. Because it's not easy. It's incredibly difficult. And you're literally taking home the weights of those organizations at times. And so I love how you phrase that anything I can do to support them and being successful. I think that's wonderful.
Laura Guilliam 38:17
Absolutely. They have a lot to lose and little to gain. So they're doing it because they love it for the most part. So yeah, they need
Scott Allen 38:27
A friend of mine who is the CEO of the Cleveland Leadership Center, Marianne Crosley. I'm not going to get this exactly correct. But she says, "our wins are theirs, (she means her team), and our losses are mine.
Laura Guilliam 38:42
That's exactly right. That's right. When you lose, you lose when you win. Everybody wins. Right? That's a good leader. So they have a lot of lot to lose and little to win. So.
Scott Allen 38:52
Yeah. Well, Laura, as we wind down, I always ask a couple of questions about what you're streaming, watching, reading, listening to what's happening at the Guilliam household right now that kind of has piqued your interest other than academic journal articles, which I'm sure you've been
Laura Guilliam 39:10
Yeah, you know, there there is little time for a guilty pleasure. So that should endorse your program very highly. Luckily for me, you've decided to support an area that I need I need more information on, so you actually helped me a lot of times some of the guilty You know, I'm with mainstream and a lot of that I love the Joe Rogan. I love the daily of New York Times. But when I do get the opportunity to go for a run or go for a walk with the dogs, I love to my favorites are The Hidden Brain. It's just neat. It digs into a lot of the things you know, why do you think the things you do what generates different behaviors and how do you deepen relationships from and then the overwhelmed brain is also one those two were ones that I get tips on from colleagues, and I haven't been able to turn them off So those, those are the only four outside of yours that I actually listened to, again, giving you high credit, I have a laundry list of ones, you've really connected me with the notion of how to consume information while doing other things. And I love that. So thank you for hooking me back up to this, this mode of learning and guilty indulgence.
Scott Allen 40:24
Well, sometimes it's interesting. I'll even have something playing kind of in the background as I'm working on more mindless stuff. But yeah, there's just it's almost overwhelming. Because I ask that question every time and every time someone has something really, really cool. And then I want to go explore that. It's like, it reminds me of when I was in my Ph. D. program, someone would say, "Well, have you read..." and then just fill in the blank? And, you know, I would say, well, there's another book. So really, the only thing that Ph.D. did for me was to help me understand how little I do know.
Laura Guilliam 40:59
that's so true. If nothing else, PhDs humble you to the point of realizing, holy cow. How did all of this exist? And I only knew a fraction of it. Yeah. Lots of good. Lots of great work. I heard Rob Lowe. I'm an 80s. Girl, you know, the Brat Pack. So Rob Lowe came out with a podcast, and he interviews, you know, different friends and stuff. And I wrote that down like, I want to see you. I want to hear Rob Lowe's. So yeah, you've triggered something that now is an obsession. So thanks,
Scott Allen 41:33
Laura, I am excited to follow your work to learn more about what you learn about in your studies and in your research. And thanks for the work that you do. Again, so much respect for someone who's investigating the academic side and embedded in the practitioner side. I think for me personally that both/and is an incredibly powerful combination. I think both on their own can be great. Yeah, but for me, I agree with you that that space where there's both Yeah, I think there's room for that. I think it's critical. I think it's important. And if we are building leaders who have a little more intentionality, a little more awareness about the theory, then what should be done in this instance, theoretically, I think that's a great world. I really do.
Laura Guilliam 42:23
I think that's great. Scott, you're right. Yeah. If leaders could just go that route and be more mindful about what they're delivering but also more open and creative and, and really brave in that space. We're gonna win. We're gonna figure this out. And we're gonna end up on the right side of this.
Scott Allen 42:45
Well, thank you. Thank you. Well, take care, and I am very excited. I owe you lunch. In 2023 when we are back together in person.
Laura Guilliam 42:57
All right. That's a deal. I'm marking it down.
Scott Allen 43:00
Okay, be well, good job, you too - be well Scott.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai