Larry Cassesa is the Director of Sales, Marketing, and Product for Abicor Binzel USA and Canada. He started his career and sales and moved into a leadership position after the 2008 financial crisis. He's led a global team through the implementation of the Salesforce CRM and many cross-functional projects. We explore Larry's experience on the front lines of leadership.
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Larry Cassesa is the Director of Sales, Marketing, and Product for Abicor Binzel USA and Canada. He started his career and sales and moved into a leadership position after the 2008 financial crisis. He's led a global team through the implementation of the Salesforce CRM and many cross-functional projects. We explore Larry's experience on the front lines of leadership.
Quotes from This Episode
Resource Mentioned in This Episode
Other Episodes Mentioned In This Conversation
Note: Voice to text transcriptions are about 90% accurate.
Scott Allen 0:08
On the program today, I have Larry Cassesa. And Larry and I have known each other for probably, I don't know, Larry, it might be like a decade. And we met at John Carroll University. And you've been listening to the podcasts, which I love. One thing you said was, "Hey, I think maybe there are a couple of things missing from this conversation." And so I'm excited to explore some of those conversations that, you know, a front line manager, is someone actually doing the work each and every day. And you're a senior leader in your organization. But that doesn't mean you aren't answering to someone above you. Someone below you, peers, right?
Larry Cassesa 0:50
Absolutely.
Scott Allen 0:51
Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm excited about this conversation. Because, today, we have an individual actually doing the work. And that work is hard. It's difficult. It's challenging. You know, M. Scott Peck in the 1970s, he wrote a book called The Road Less Traveled. And the opening line of that book has never escaped me. Because the opening line of that book, it said,, "life is difficult." And then just period, boom, what a way to start a book. I want to write a book someday, that just says "leadership is difficult" period, boom. So Larry, tell folks a little bit about you. And then we're gonna jump into this conversation.
Larry Cassesa 1:37
Okay, well, I started off, I finished my degree at John Carroll, back in 2001. And then I immediately went to the workforce. So not sure what I was going to do prior to finishing up my business degree, I wanted to be a radio DJ. So quite a transition over to the business world. But once I hit those business classes, seeing how things flowed in organizations, it reminded more be more of my athletic background and sports and, and, you know, kind of being the leader on the core, whether basketball or football. So I really found an interest in business, I wasn't sure where was going to take me. So I started off into sales. And, yeah, sales is what got me off, from the very beginning into my career, from inside to outside, and then eventually to sales management in 2009, just a little bit before the crash. So I got to manage through that. letting my first people go and dealing with, you know, trying to keep a business afloat, through that kind of grew into the business. And then they sold off. So I took another opportunity that didn't go so well. But I learned a ton. So I got the opportunity to learn a lot about culture, and leadership through that. And just as I was finishing up that, I finished up my masters at Carroll, and I took this job that I have now. So now I'm in a company called Abicor. Binzel where again, I started off leading sales and marketing. And now I'm over the product. And engineering is involved with that, too. And so it's more, I'm at the home base here, and I have my hands in just about everything.
Scott Allen 3:27
Well, and so, as you think about leading day to day, day in day out, and especially now that in this in this instance, this kind of unprecedented time of leadership. What are some themes that stand out for you? What are some hallmarks that you bring with you every day to work that you think would really be of interest to listeners, or maybe it's even as you mentioned, when we spoke a couple of weeks ago, maybe it's even a little bit of a gap, something that hasn't been discussed on the podcast that you think is critical when it comes to this conversation because I know you read a ton. I know that you have your eyes wide open when it comes to this topic, you are a lifelong learner. So what are you seeing?
Larry Cassesa 4:08
Well, when we start going through this, it there's so much uncertainty with your people in your organization that people that that report to you and also the don't when you've seen as a leader within that organization, people are looking to you for some sort of certainty. So a lot of what my job was was to make sure that that was communicated to them. We go through this in creating that culture of safety and trying to say, "Okay, we'll all go we're all in this together. So we all took a little bit of a pay cut to help bridge this gap." We were hit pretty hard being tied to automotive. So but the employees and I were surprised to hear from some of the people who have recently started working with me their biggest fear was they're going to be let go. So it's reassuring that safety, security providing that certainty that they can go out and do their job. So my job is also to clear obstacles. So we talked about this before a little bit, but it's a very symbiotic and circular relationship. Often it's seen in your podcast, I've heard it mentioned multiple times to it seen as leadership up top followers below. Yeah. And I really rely on those followers to do the tasks to make the company successful. And they look to me for the certainty and, and security that they're covered. And they're taking care of any obstacles that come in their way. So it's a very symbiotic relationship that we're running into, as
Scott Allen 5:48
well, and what else comes to mind or what other hallmarks so I'm hearing, you know, providing stability, ensuring in this instance, that look everything, your job is secure. Consistency, communication, what else? Do you think what else stands out for you?
Larry Cassesa 6:06
Guys, so from a general standpoint, a lot of what I do is to try to set that culture to try to be that that beacon, or that person that says, "Okay, this is the way that we're doing this as an organization." So I'm very involved with hiring processes, even the ones that don't report to me directly. And they bring me in a lot of times, because, they ask different questions. There are the tasks, and then there's a persona. So does this person fit in with this culture that we're trying to build these people who are empowered, who are comfortable being empowered, who are confident in what they're doing, and all they need is that landscape that artists, looking for somebody to provide them a landscape where they can make their masterpiece. So when you're doing that, I think integrity, honesty are critical that that helps with the safety and security, they believe that they can trust you. Empathy, and so listening to them. And a lot of times people hear the term listening, and they believe, "oh, well, I'm a good listener." Well, listening is that lost art? As far as I'm concerned. Oftentimes, people are either, you know, waiting to talk, or "Oh, yeah, I remember when" and trying to put their own story in there. So true empathy is exhausting. It really is because you're constantly trying to go, "Okay, what are they saying," and try to put yourself in their shoes, so that you're able to understand and give them solutions that fit their problem. So taking that time to do that, today's day and age, it's really tough, because everybody's got shorter attention spans, we have our devices, we have all kinds of distractions, or phone buzzes or email beings, whatever happens, you know, and you're sitting there talking to somebody, and you either check your device or your smartwatch, as opposed to trying to ignore that and really concentrate on what this person is trying to tell you. I too have failed at this because I didn't know that I'm expecting a call. So somebody is talking with me and you quickly look at your smartwatch to go, "Okay, is it that person?" And the person that you're engaged in dialogue with looks at you goes, "Oh, do you have to go?" So, again, true empathy is hard, it takes a lot of energy, in order to be able to, to really dive into what is the root of what's going on with them. But if that gets accomplished, if they truly believe that you understand, you make a much stronger connection with those with the people, whether it's clients, customers, or your team, you make a really strong connection that allows for you to do things without as much I don't want to say effort, but do things where people feel comfortable. And okay, "I'm supported and taken care of, and this person has my back."
Scott Allen 9:04
Yeah. Well, it's such a fine line. I mean, I'd love to get your perspective on what's the fine line between empathy and accountability? Or what is the fine line between empathy and a situation where we're going to get into performance management? Because essentially, I've listened I've listened. But the organization, we also have a commitment to the organization here, how do you balance those two? Because I agree with you, I think, empathizing, listening, meeting them where they are, but what happens when you have someone who isn't kind of authentically interested in meeting you where you need to be? Yeah, so that's never happened to you. It has it Larry?
Larry Cassesa 9:55
It happens a ton. And I'm not saying from the standpoint that it's daily. But there are times where we come to decision on what the next steps are. And those aren't followed through by the other person. So you've listened, you've understood, you've tried to help, but they're not holding up their side of the bargain. Again, all these things kind of interweave, so when you go back to the integrity, and you're honest with them, then you've heard the euphemism of deposits and withdrawals with trust. So if you're depositing that empathy, if you're making those deposits into that person, then there are times you have to do those, you have to take those withdrawals, say, okay, we need to sit down and talk. And you have to have an honest conversation with them. Try to try to remove the, feelings from it, focus on the facts of the situation. And I've heard you talk much about parenting, and it's tied to leadership too. So like with your kids, okay, let's talk about the action. It's not you, it's not you as a person or your soul. Okay, these actions unacceptable. So that's when you have to sit down with them and make a withdrawal. And I've had some challenging employees, where you have to do that, and they get reverse mad at you in my opinion, I've always tried to stay calm, focus on the facts, reiterate where we were, why we're here today, and try to implement that action plan, either all over again, or find the next steps to finding a happier place for that person.
Scott Allen 11:29
Yeah, yeah. And when you say, happier place for that person, you mean it potentially out or no longer with the organization if need be?
Larry Cassesa 11:38
Absolutely. I just had a case recently with one of my employees who wanted more as far as a career. So again, this isn't a negative situation as we were talking, but if I can't provide that, I can't provide that step towards, you know, Chief Marketing Officer, I can't provide those steps, then I think it's my obligation as a leader to also find him that happier path two, "okay, this is where you want to go, this is what you want to do, I understand I have to backfill this," but I don't want to hold people back either. Or the same thing goes for the disciplinary things where, again, you've got to find a happier path. Because if they're not doing the things that they need to be doing to help make themselves and the organization successful, they're more than likely that they're not a good fit for what we're trying to do. And they're not really happy with what they're doing.
Scott Allen 12:32
How do you, how do you communicate some of this on the front end, Larry, so you have a new employee, and just take us through your process of level setting the relationship, you mentioned earlier that you are, along with the team responsible for shaping culture. So talk about how you think about shaping culture, what are some tangible action steps that you take to work to shape culture, and specifically, I hope we can get to, especially with someone who's new, and you're trying to kind of build and set up that relationship between the two of you.
Larry Cassesa 13:13
Okay, so typically, when we go through the interview process, I try to be as honest as possible. So it starts there for me, I try to be honest, and from that point, I'm trying to build that rapport and that trust level from the very beginning. So as we sit and talk and, and I tell them, these are some of the obstacles we're going to run into. So you start building that level, of trust, where, okay, this person's feeling a little bit more comfortable. And then you have to follow through very big on spending time, not necessarily, not necessarily outside of work, but sitting down with them over a meal for lunch, or getting to know more than just the work aspect of it, the family aspect of it, and will start opening up to you more. So you start building this culture of trust and respect for one another, you're more than just an employee here, you're a person. So those are the tangible things I do from the beginning. And then I continue to build on that. So as we go through these tasks, I sit with them, they fail. Failure is okay, as long as you're trying and we're going through this. So it's a long relationship-building period. But you can shorten that trust by spending the time with that person and really following through on what you said from the very beginning. If you have to make those immediate withdrawals, then things usually aren't going that well, and you'll struggle to build that culture. And honestly, if you find somebody who's really not a culture fit, it's best to get rid of that person as fast as possible, because they can be huge drains on your business. I've watched it too many times, and quite frankly, your good culture people, they sit around and they look for you to make those tough decisions. And if you don't, it starts dragging everything down. So they're looking for you to step up, and you're the leader, you're the one, that's okay, I chose this role. So my job is to protect all those other people in the culture. So you have to make those tough decisions, you have to have those tough conversations. But from the very beginning, if you hire right, your coach, right, and you're spending the time talking with them, listening to them, giving them space, letting them grow, trust begins to build. And then if that's, that's the culture that I like to build, that follows through, you get more and more people like that. And the people who don't fit in don't tend to stay around because it's not their type of comfortable environment.
Scott Allen 15:49
Yeah. And that's not good or bad, it just kind of is, and in the culture tends to be stronger and stronger and stronger.
Larry Cassesa 16:00
I found that that man, culture follows leadership so closely. So when I was with Superior Products, when it was sold, the owner had to step aside, new management had come in to talk with us in management was so disinterested. So over the course of a week, that the culture of that building changed. You know, over the course of the week, where everybody was scared, nobody felt comfortable. Nobody was really talking all a sudden everybody's checking out at five o'clock. So, again, quick changes in leadership can also change that culture very quickly.
Scott Allen 16:38
Yeah. One thing I'd love to explore with you, Larry, I don't think we've ever talked about this is, you know, you have this kind of traditional notion of leader/managers. So you have, you know, sometimes you hear quotes, like, you know, "you manage things you lead people", there are other quotes that are kind of like that. But in many ways, it's there's an old, there's an old leadership theory, by Blake and Mouton, which really focused on one dimension, or one axis was tasked. And the other dimension was relationships. So we can kind of slice this up, and we could get really, really nuanced if we want to, we're going to keep it about 30,000 feet. But a challenge of someone in your role is that really the requirement to be good at both leading and managing the people below, want you to lead and they also want you to clear away the debris so they can get their work done. They also want you to take care of a lot of those management-oriented components of the role so that the work can get done. So both are critical, both are essential. Both are required. The people above probably want the same thing, but they want the results they want, they want all of that kind of and then they want your people not to be grumbling.
Larry Cassesa 18:02
Yes, yes.
Scott Allen 18:03
And so you know, then that's a success. And of course, I'm over-generalizing here. But as you think about that leader, manager role, how do you balance the two? How do you really stay focused on balancing those two? And Larry, Larry, even as you reflect, are you stronger in one or the other?
Larry Cassesa 18:26
I don't know, if I'm stronger, and one or the other. I am a statistical nerd, I go through Excel. So I look at the numbers, those are indicators to me, typically of behaviors more so than anything else, you got to look at market conditions. So is the market going up and down. So as I had said earlier, we're tied to automotive. So at the beginning of March through May, when automotive shutdown, we cannot expect our numbers to be good. But at the same time, you know, you still have to monitor the numbers that you're monitoring change from year over year to month over month to try to figure out if things are getting better or worse. So I think you really have to be good at both. But if you put something secondary, I think it would be the numbers, you have to understand those. I think those are typically indicators if you're doing everything right on the other end. So I'm going through a challenge right now. And it's all numbers based, but ultimately it comes back to "Okay, I don't think anybody in here is trying to purposely disrupt our business." So there are processes I have to look at. There are okay, do we have the right software? Do we have the right things around this that you have to look at? And with that, you have to talk to the people who are actually doing these tasks so you get the numbers, and then you immediately jump back to the people to find more information about why are these numbers the way that they are? So I think it requires both, but you do have to be able to, in my opinion, unearth, those numbers and look at the nuances of, of what those processes are, are we following them? As well, too, but ultimately it will come back to those people who, who are executing more so than just the raw numbers.
Scott Allen 20:21
Yeah. And take me through that process. You go, you go back to the team with, okay, y'all, here's the data. Here's where we are. What's your process from there? I know, I know, it's shifting, but generally speaking, how do you navigate that conversation?
Larry Cassesa 20:42
Typically it starts off with exactly what you just said, these are the numbers, we have an issue that we need to adjust. So you pull in the pertinent people, the people that you trust the most, the people who are involved in that process need to be involved as well, too. And you sit down with them and say, "Okay, this is what I'm seeing." They cannot dispute the numbers, theoretically, numbers are fact, those can be manipulated as well to depending on how they're entered. But ultimately, you sit down and you try to brainstorm with the people who are doing this. There's a book called The Goal, which I liked, I can't think of the author right off the top of my head. But what they would do is they would find the, they would find a bottleneck in production, and they would keep adjusting around bottlenecks until in production would always improve until they found another bottleneck. Yeah. So when you sit down with this group, it's like, okay, what's our biggest problem in being able to achieve this goal or improve these numbers? And you fix that, and then you move to the next, okay, this still isn't good enough, we still have a problem. And they say, well, this may be a problem. So you can stop them and say, Okay, well, I see this as a problem, what's causing this problem. So you get them to dig deeper as well, too, it's not, they don't necessarily have the solution they may think they have because they haven't thought of all factors. So again, back to your 30,000 foot, as a leader, you have to be able to see all this and help them navigate it as well, too. So it's not us standing up top, "this is the information, this is what everybody needs to do, go out and do it a good meeting," it's okay, help them help guide them through this is how you can get a trusted staff. This, this is this, these are the things that we see. And they may mention a solution. And they aren't thinking about all the factors. So you as a leader, have to pull it in and address that with them and start trying to figure this out to get to the best solution. And again, not be afraid to fail. You have to go out there and try things, that the worst thing I think anybody can tell me is, "this is the way we've always done it." Yeah, I get that every once in a while we have a tenured work staff. And when it comes back, well, this is the way we've always done it. Well, you know, we were just, for example, we were a $1 million company, then we're 100 million dollar company. Now, we can't do it that way anymore. So again, your job is not necessary to have all the solutions or answers, but to help them find those as well, too, and work with them to find those solutions.
Scott Allen 23:22
Well, it sounds like you're a facilitator a lot of the day you're facilitating Is that accurate?
Larry Cassesa 23:27
Yep. Yeah. So during the meetings, I'd much prefer to be a facilitator than necessarily a top-down sort of command leader. I think it's more productive that way. But at some point, if there's too much dilly dally going around, and I don't know the exact leadership term, but people get sideways, it's very good at bringing it right back to the point of what we're trying to do. So. Yeah, you try to facilitate for sure to get to that best solution, but you have to keep them on task as well, too. So I can get sidetracked pretty quick.
Scott Allen 24:00
Yeah. Yeah. I think the academic term is dilly-dallying.
Larry Cassesa 24:06
I'm gonna start using it. Yeah.
Scott Allen 24:10
Just go to Google Scholar and type in dilly-dallying, and you'll find out - decades of research.
Larry Cassesa 24:17
Research and I can't wait.
Scott Allen 24:20
Larry, what else is on your mind? What else are you thinking about?
Larry Cassesa 24:24
Ah, man. So I think what got me onto this originally was I listened to your first podcast and forgive me, I forgot to write down his name. But I absolutely loved his podcast. And one of the things he was discussing was basically, are we having an impact? Are we doing anything?
Scott Allen 24:47
Yeah. And Dave Rosch and the episode was, "I Have a Fear."
Larry Cassesa 24:52
Right, right. Yeah. And, and I actually called you right in the middle of the episode and said, "we need to talk." So, that's what kind of started this whole dialogue again. Because, again, I can't tell you enough. And I get, we've talked about this a little bit too, but how impactful your class was, to me a John Carroll when we did the leadership class. And it wasn't just what you were doing it well, it's what I was able to observe. But you created such an environment where you allowed the students to lead and watching them. A lot of fifth-year students at that point in time the classes that I was in, it was it opened my eyes a ton, how short they were on reality, how reality works. I don't know if you remember, but we had the Guinness Challenge that was a big portion of our grade. And there was a point in time where you weren't sure if we were going to actually get the record. And yes,
Scott Allen 25:52
just so listeners have a context of context I, I used to 15% of a class final grade, like this was a group grade was on whether or not they achieved a Guinness World Record a Certified Guinness World Record. And, I never had a class not achieve the Guinness World Record. But there were plenty of times whereas Larry just alluded to, I was very scared that we were not going to achieve the Guinness World Record. And for anyone who is overly impressed right now, I'm just going to let you know, there's a lot of low-hanging fruit when it comes to, Guinness World Record.
Larry Cassesa 26:34
And to clarify, from my standpoint, our first idea got rejected because it was extremely low-hanging fruit. I can't remember it was stacking plates or something. Yes, something extremely simple. But to go back to it to watch and learn more from these people about their concepts as a 22-year-old MBA, fifth-year MBA student of what leadership was, and how to how to navigate through that. It was really eye-opening to me. And then the second one was when you were doing the CLC (Collegiate Leadership Competition). And I went out to Delaware, where you have these students form teams come together and go through leadership challenges. And there were some of the trying to get a term. But there are some of the activities that were very similar to what we did in class. Sure, which was probably six, seven years prior. And watching again, the students go through this, there was such a gap, as the student that was dedicated to being the leader would get down on their hands and knees and start putting the puzzle together. And nobody would be standing over the top to look at the whole puzzle to realize that this smiley face, its eyes are crooked, and you know, when they're putting these posts together, again, probably too deep, but that the whole project is is clearly wrong from me as an observer, but the leader is so involved or into the tasks, task saturation that they missed this
Scott Allen 28:09
Yeah, yeah.
Larry Cassesa 28:12
I can go, it's probably a longer story. But I had to be I got yelled at by some of the kids, actually the students because well, you were you
Scott Allen 28:21
were serving real quick, you were serving as a judge in what's called the Collegiate Leadership Competition (www.collegiateleader.org). So, 50 plus colleges and universities across North America put together a team, they have a coach, a group of six students, they practice leadership from January through April. And then and then they go to a competition. And at the competition, there are judges and so Larry was serving as a judge. And these judges are executives in the community and professionals who are coming in and they kind of observe the students and what you're saying Larry happens all the time where the person has been designated the leader of the activity, just get sucked in. And they start doing everything versus facilitating the process right?
Larry Cassesa 28:30
Correct. Correct, the one where I was actually getting yelled at was kind of comical because a summarize it like this. They're supposed to write in the upper left-hand corner, their wager, much like it'll Final Jeopardy, they put their wager in the top left, and then the task or question would come up. And then they were supposed to write the answers for that. And then afterward, I'd have to tell them whether they were right or not. Well, they kept forgetting to put the wager until at the very end. So I kept having to decline it. So they switched people writing, they resorted to can you read this, as opposed to the leader stepping back knowing the answers are right and going what's wrong with this and looking back at the possibly the instructions and the order, so
Scott Allen 29:55
which they were they were right there in the instructions
Larry Cassesa 29:59
Correct. Yeah, correct. But I had to go to the person overseeing the whole event to make sure I was doing it the right way. And it even took a while for the teachers or the coaches of that team to realize what was going on. So, but again, to see that gap between what you're trying to accomplish, but I can tell you this, those kids were way better off than most kids coming out of college with their MBA, because those kids have now lived it, and they felt it, and it's so critical. And I know you had somebody on your show talking about that, they have to feel it, you have to actually go out there and feel what it's like to lead and fail. And then you start adjusting how you do those things as it goes on, as your life and your career go on. I am 100 times different than I was in 2009. And how I handle situations, I'm more experienced, I've seen a lot more things, not that new stuff doesn't get thrown at me all the time. But I can put it in a general file cabinet and at least resort or move back to that experience and pull it up. So yeah, I think it's so critical. And that's why I called you to get the students at the exact thing that you were doing and put them through that stress. Because they should learn through that.
Scott Allen 31:21
Yeah. Well,, I have been working on a podcast that I had recorded with a woman named Diane Dixon. And it's a great episode. But she reminded me of some research out of the Center for Creative Leadership (CCL), which is their 70/20/10 rule. And they said they suggest their research suggests that CCL that 70% of leadership development should be on the job challenges. 20% is networking with senior leaders and mentors and individuals who can help show you the way quote-unquote, and 10% is that that book knowledge sitting in a classroom, so to speak. So if you think about oftentimes how we're doing leadership education, it's, it's the opposite. And I think that's that gets to the heart of Dave's Rosch's fear is that no amount of sitting in a room talking about leadership is going to help people get better at the activity of leading others - just not going to. So that's what you saw me trying to experiment within both of those contexts is can we at least create a space where we can explore and experiment and create a somewhat of a laboratory, versus just sitting there and talking about it. It's like trying to create a chef by talking about French cuisine. You might have an expert in French cuisine at the end, but they aren't going to be able to cook French cuisine. It's not gonna happen, right? It's them in the kitchen that 70 having great mentors that 20. And some of it's the books that 10. Right? You want your next pilot to say I've studied this a lot.
Larry Cassesa 33:04
I've read so many.
Scott Allen 33:06
Yeah, I have. I've been in a lot of simulators. And I've read a lot of books about piloting, I think we're ready.
Larry Cassesa 33:14
Yeah, the analogy I use is, again, back to parenting, you can ride your bike around as much as you want for your kid and show them how easy it is. But until they feel it and they fall off and they Okay, they'll start getting it and they'll start riding their bike around, it's, they have to feel it and experience it. Another thing that has been a big point of pride for me, is I've been able to develop some other leaders and still working on it today. So as we walk through this, I have a gentleman a younger gentleman now who got interested in leadership, he came to the company with absolutely no aspirations of anything like that. He said he wanted to be here for about two years and, and anyone to go off and do his own thing. I think he's going on here for now. And again, he's younger, and he's starting to learn these concepts. I think it was a book Good to Great by Jim Collins, and got him to start thinking about it. Yep. And as we started talking about those things, and those concepts and, and why, you know, "getting the right people on the bus" is so critical. He just started to get really interested. So that coaching aspect of me is important to me if you're willing to give me your time, and true attention. And if I tell you to read a book, and we'll talk about it and you do it, I'll support anybody and their growth and development down this path. Now give them extra insights into situations that are currently happening, and why this may be happening this way and what's happening, so you know, where that's possibly gonna lead? And it's amazing when you stop and what do you think? And you hear their initial assessment until you ask some more questions like okay Because I have that experience where I've seen as like, Okay, this is some of the factors at play. Yeah. So once you start bringing that to light, their eyes open up a little bit more so that coaching aspects been huge for me too. It's such a rewarding endeavor.
Scott Allen 35:14
We have covered we've covered a lot, Larry. So we've got coaching, we've got culture, we've got leader, manager, we've got listening. We've got what else have we covered? I think we've covered two or three other things that I haven't even thought of right now. But, but I think we...
Larry Cassesa 35:34
Integrity/honesty.
Scott Allen 35:37
Yeah. Okay, integrity, honesty. I mean, when you think about what is required of an individual to be successful in this role, it's you're ambidextrous, you are, there's so many if you're going to do this well, to your point. I mean, it starts with your integrity and your ethical and moral compass. And then from there, are you a great teacher? Are you a great educator? Are you a great cheerleader? Are you a great manager? Are you do you technically have the competence? Are you a great facilitator? It's mind-boggling the different skills that are required for someone to do this really, really, really well. And I had a great conversation with Barbara Kellerman. And her perspective was that, this is lifelong learning. This is not something that is a couple of years of sitting in a classroom, for someone to really get great at this work. It's decades of continuous learning. And it's too bad in some ways that leadership and management have not been their professions, where we could actually challenge people in these roles to continually learn, develop, grow, and become better year over year over a year just being a continuous cycle of improvement because it's hard. It's like, like I said, at the very beginning of the podcast, the M. Scott Pack, leadership is difficult. It's not easy. What do you love as we close out here? What do you love most about the role? Again, you're a senior leader, but you're also in the middle, and you've got people reporting to you, you're reporting to individuals, what do you love most about the role?
Larry Cassesa 37:21
I honestly, it's the positive impact that you have on people. But like I said, I played sports, winning is very important. It's something that, you know, I'm constantly fighting to improve myself. But it's when you're able to have a positive impact on other people in your organization, you're able to watch them grow, even when they leave, and do very successful things. So with leadership, it's really passionate about, creating an unbelievably awesome environment were, where people can thrive and grow and be successful. And sometimes you have to cut out those that aren't, even though you give them your effort because they're taking away from your ability to do it for those others who really want that positive, successful environment. So that's, that's probably my biggest passion.
Scott Allen 38:18
Yep. Love it. Love it. Okay, quick lightning round. Larry. What are you streaming a reading right now that's standing out for you? What's the best book you've read lately?
Larry Cassesa 38:32
I like the Infinite Game by Simon Sinek. Yeah, I think that takes a great look at how companies are successful over the long haul. It's not. Again, he talks in there about how fast culture can switch to with Merrill Lynch, but, but he's talking about doing things that are for the long term. And I'm so blessed to be within a company, it's privately held, their vision is on the long term that they're not looking to sell. They're looking to be around for a long period of time. And that makes life so much easier and decision makings easier. You're not trying to just hit the quarter, or hit the month, or hit the year. You're really looking Okay, five years from now, where are we going to be? And I think that's lost with Wall Street a lot. So Infinite Game was probably the best book that I read recently. But yeah, I don't think much of anything, to be honest with you. I don't get I I go through a lot of audiobooks, so Verbal Judo recently. My wife had brought that up, so absolutely. She wants to read we started our own mini book club, where we go through books together now too, so. Yeah, Extreme Ownership is my favorite that is by Jacko willing and life Babin. I give that to all my leaders to go through as well too. And then the psychological books like the light switch You know, that's a great book as well, too. That's by jack Shafer. But many, many, many military books as well. Yeah, so I usually go through audiobooks. And truth be told, if I never found Audible, I probably wouldn't have read anything. So I'm thankful that I found that because that's the way that I learn and absorb information. Yeah, if you put me in front of a 20-page book that's a week and a half of me flipping back and forth and pages as I get distracted, but for whatever reason, audiobooks have been phenomenal. So it's allowed me to absorb so much more information.
Scott Allen 40:37
So a book suggestion for you and for listeners and try Sapiens. Gonna kind of blow your mind.
Larry Cassesa 40:50
I will. Oh, sure.
Scott Allen 40:51
Cool. Okay, my friend. You are an individual, steeped in the work. love having your perspective. Thank you for reaching out. Thanks for making this happen. And sharing your wisdom with boots on the ground. I can't thank you enough for your time today. Larry.
Larry Cassesa 41:10
Hey, thank you for everything you're doing not just for me, but for those kids and the educators who are actually going out there trying to get the next generation up and going and, and thanks for taking the time to have me on the podcast. It's truly an honor. I never expected it. It's not the reason I called but it was just to give you that perspective on what I was hearing and how much I agree with Dr. Rosch there. So thank you.
Scott Allen 41:35
Awesome, awesome. Be well take care.
Larry Cassesa 41:38
You too. Thanks. Bye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai