Note: Voice-to-text transcriptions are about 90% accurate, and conversations-to-text do not always translate perfectly. I include it to provide you with the spirit of the conversation.
Scott Allen 0:00
Okay, everybody, I have a return guest today, Joe Hart. Joe is the CEO of Dale Carnegie. And the last time you were on, I'm going to put, of course, your bio in the show notes. So people can, you're an old friend at this point. But you were actually leaving for a retreat because you were working on a book. And now the book has been published. And I have spent the last week with you listening to, as I was saying, before we got on the air and listening to the audiobook. And I've just fallen in love when the author of the book is reading their book. And so, as I said, before we started thank you very, very much for taking the time to do that, because it just means so much when you're actually hearing the voice of the author. But that was probably no small task, sir.
Joe Hart 0:47
Thank you, thank you for enduring eight hours of me. And now, I know, did you listen to it at like 1.5 or two speed?
Scott Allen 0:54
No! It was the real deal the whole way through?
Joe Hart 0:59
Well, I give you a lot of credit. It was not I mean, it's funny, because, you know, I had in my mind that it would be probably a challenge to do an audiobook. But until I actually got into the studio - I didn't realize...I'm standing up to record because I want to channel the energy and that type of thing. And, you know, I've starred in all kinds of energy, and over time, I'm like, gosh, my throat is getting a little sore...and so it was, it was about 20 hours of recording, but it was a lot of fun. And I felt like if someone's gonna read the book, you know, it may as well be me. I co-authored it with my friend Michael Crom. And, so I really was into it. And it was a lot of fun doing it, I really honored to be able to do it too.
Scott Allen 1:45
I'd love to talk about a couple 30,000-foot level topics here. First, the title. I just loved the title. And I've been reflecting on that and kind of coming back to that over and over and over because it just beautifully captures the spirit of what you're communicating Take Command. I mean, would you talk a little bit about where that came from? Because I think it's a mindset and it's a beautiful mindset take command, you own this your driving...go.
Joe Hart 2:16
Thank you so much. That's exactly...you nailed it. That's exactly what it is. You know, one of the things that we focus on in Dale Carnegie programs...you take a Dale Carnegie course we talk about intentionality. You know, one of the challenges a lot of people have is, it's so easy to get wrapped up in our day-to-day or week-to-week or to-do lists, and all of a sudden, days, weeks, months, years have gone by. And we're like, "oh my gosh, where'd all the time go?" And so you know, we really emphasize the importance of being intentional in what we do, and what we think what we say in the relationships, how we're going to handle relationships. So Take Command is really about being intentional. And you know, in the construct of the book is really around taking command of your thoughts and your emotions. First, you got to take command of yourself. Because, you know, Dale Carnegie once said, Scott that the biggest challenge he had was, "the management of Dale Carnegie." And I'd say the same thing. The biggest challenge I have is managing myself and my thoughts and take command really felt like the right title to commit your thoughts, your emotions, your relationships, and your future.
Scott Allen 3:17
Yes, yes. Well, and another theme kind of running throughout, at least, what I took from it, was that you are speaking to a younger generation, we have stories about younger individuals around the world. I mean, I also loved the global perspective to this, it wasn't just younger people making a difference in one spot. It's literally all over the world. And I have to imagine some of that came from that global network of Dale Carnegie, which is incredible. But it's speaking to that younger generation. And I can just very, very easily envision using this in a class because there are these timeless principles that the students need to hear. But then it's speaking to a certain age group, not that it can't speak to any age group, it spoke to me. And, it contains the message in a really nice way. But I think that another theme I noticed was something intentional in the work.
Joe Hart 4:15
100%. You know, we hoped that the book could benefit anyone who read it or listen to it. And at the same time, you know, we were thinking about Dale Carnegie's principles. And frankly, Michael and I were talking even during the pandemic, just about just all the struggles that the world was going through that I was going through just believing a global company and you know, these principles that Dale Carnegie had developed over years and are contained in How to Win Friends and Influence People and How to Stop Worrying and Start Living...two of the most successful books of all time impacting this millions and millions of people 10s of millions of people. And you know, we thought to ourselves, how do we get these brilliant ideas? How do we build on these to a younger group of people younger audience who may not have the benefit of being familiar with...you and I have lived a certain number of years, we have the value of perspective, and we can look back at things that the younger audience can't. So how do we shortcut or save them? You know, what can be a lot of years of learning and frustration, and just really give them these jewels of Dale Carnegie with, as you said, stories of diverse people from all around the world. My co-author, Michael Crom, interviewed about 100, Forbes 30 under 30, people from all over the world I interviewed people on our Dale Carnegie, podcast and also people in your Dale Carnegie program. So we had to have this broad base of people and so much of the book, we really wanted the book to be about stories, we want it to be an easy book for people to read. It's something that we hope flows really well for people. But you're right, Scott 100%. We were hoping to reach a younger audience.
Scott Allen 5:50
Yeah, I mean, you have contemporary authors that you're referring to you have CNN Heroes, you have just individuals that are making a difference, that really nice model, what it is that you're communicating. And so. one of my favorite quotes, and it aligns nicely with something you said a few moments ago, but Bill George said that "the hardest person you'll ever lead is yourself." And you alluded to this a little bit earlier, I mean, that taking command of your thoughts and emotions - it's the starting point. Talk a little bit about that. And again, you have some beautiful stories in the context of the book, we talked a little bit about it last time, even in those early days of the pandemic are you leading this global corporation, you had this moment where you had to take command of your own thoughts and emotions, as you were thinking about leading the organization if I remember correctly, it was a late night and you opened up a book!
Joe Hart 6:46
Yeah, no, I mean, if you think about your life, my life, really all of our lives. You know, we wake up in the morning, and our minds start going, sometimes our minds are going while we sleep. That was the experience that I had during COVID. I woke up every night, at three o'clock in the morning, and my mind was just going to all of these really bad places I mean, this is the early stages and our entire business around the world global business was shutting down. And you know, it's terrifying when you see that something like something you just didn't ever anticipate happening. In those moments, I found myself really in dark places thinking about the worst possible things, and then I picked up one night, Dale Carnegie's How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. And one of the things he talked about is he said, "if I know what your thoughts are, I know who you are." And he had this quote that has really stayed with me, it's from Marcus Aurelius the Roman emperor, which is "our lives are what our thoughts make it." So our lives are with our thoughts make it if I, if I'm focused on all the things that could go wrong, or why I'm a victim, or why this isn't going to work, then that's what I'm gonna get in. On the other hand, if I'm thinking about how do I make this situation better, what can I do - "If it is to be, it is up to me," so to speak, that's going to lead to a whole series of different results. And so I started in vectored first comment about Take Command. I said, "Geez, you know, I gotta really start taking command and my thoughts." And I did and really turn things around for myself, and started to think about where are the opportunities here, really, where are the things I can do what we can do, and frankly, our company today is stronger, it's more resilient, more agile, we've been growing. It's been really exciting. And that's a testament to our Dale Carnegie people all over the world, who embrace change, and really were very creative, in the face of great difficulty. But it does start with our taking command of our thoughts.
Scott Allen 8:38
And I love the phrasing, just choose your thoughts. Again, you own this condition your mind you own this, work with your emotions, you own this, what I'd love to let's stick a little bit on this theme of individuals who may not be feeling confident it's, "build your confidence." Why is this so core to this first part? How do you think about that - build your confidence? Again, that's I love the phrasing in that because I have ownership in that I can do that. Right?
Joe Hart 9:11
That's right the titles of these chapters are very deliberate, they're active verb titles, and there's a progression in the first part. So as we kind of mentioned, this whole first part is Take Command of Your Thoughts and Emotions. And once you've taken command of yourself, then it's, Take Command of Your Relationships. Because in life, so much of our happiness or unhappiness depends on the quality of our connection. So love the people or bosses or spouses or significant others, whatever the case might be. And then once you've done that, hey, what's your future? What's the vision you have for yourself? But going back to that first part, even within that the very first part of it is you got to 'pay attention to your thoughts,' because I think so many of us if I'm not thinking I could go through my Twitter feed and get pretty angry about a lot of things. I have a lot of different thoughts going through my mind, but it's like, "Well, wait timeout. What am I thinking here? What are the assumptions I'm making?" Or you get an email, if someone says something in a meeting something rubs you the wrong way, you know, we think someone is trying to hurt us or whatever. And it's just like, "hold on a second, what is that thought?" So there's this progression in this first chapter about, first, just starting to develop the habit of paying attention to your thoughts and learning how to flip them to something that is going from maybe negative to something that's more constructive. But it's not enough to do that. Just once, you know, you really have to condition your mind for success. If you and I, you know, went to the gym, we're not going to go one time and do a set of bicep curls and be done, we're going to want to do that over and over and over until we build the muscle. And then that second chapter really goes to mindset, you know how so that it becomes automatic. So I'm living my life, and it's just so much easier for me to confront or deal with all the situations that might come up in my life. We also have emotions. So we want to encourage people how to take command of their emotions, I've got my thoughts, and then I've got my emotions, and how those two things interplay, you know, is really complex. But if we can befriend our emotions, understand how our emotions are serving us. So all of this then leads to your question. And your question was really about confidence, then we start to get into, you know, building your confidence, and building resilience and dealing with regret and dealing with stress. But you know, the culmination of all of this is we want to help people be strong, confident, resilient, you deal with adversity, and you can get through it.
Whatever that means. I mean, we've got people listening to your podcast right now. It's like, think about a time in your life right now that you're struggling, whether that is causing you anger or frustration. The sooner you can equip yourself to manage that and move beyond it, that opens up incredible opportunity. But until you do that, it's just like having ankle weights, if someone is grabbing your ankle, holding it back. So the goal is to get to the point where people are just resilient and strong and competent. And I can't give what I don't have. So if I'm going to go into a relationship with people, I want to be bringing the best of myself that I can.
Scott Allen 12:05
I think that's great phrasing. My friend, Jonathan Reams, who's at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology. He says he phrases it like this, "before you can grow up, you have to clean up." Are you in a good spot, before you start to extend yourself to others and build relationships? And if you're building relationships from that place of strength, your "shop's in order" so to speak? I mean, obviously, we don't want to encourage listeners to not build relationships until they feel they're perfectly fixed, right? But yes, have you done some of that inner work, taking command of self, taking command of your own thoughts and emotions, and built that foundation, so to speak? And then there was a chapter that just really resonated for me, and I've never heard an author confront this the way that you did, which I just very, very much appreciated. Which I think was this whole thing around in the in taking command of your relationships. Are we connected? Are they trustworthy relationships? And, you know, we are going to come across difficult people. And that is a thing that's going to be happening, and are we surrounding ourselves with people (when possible), obviously, it's not always possible, but are we surrounding yourself with people who help us be the best version of ourselves?
Joe Hart 13:28
Yeah, that chapter is a really important one because we all deal with difficult people. And then, the normal thing that many of us do is we just blame the other person or critical we're, you know, we've got every excuse in the world about why this person is a lousy person. But part of what we talked about in the book, by the way, one thing we talked about in the book is that we may not see ourselves as the difficult person, but we may be that difficult person for somebody else. So let's be reflective and introspective and understand kind of what our role might be in that relationship. You know, but the other thing is that often, it's less about the other person we perceive as difficult and it's more about us, it's more about how we handle the situation. And here's an example - so let's say, I'm talking to my boss, and my boss comes and says, Joe, you know, I need you to work late I need you to get this done. And I say, "fine," but then I grumble and say, Gosh, here he comes again. He's get asked me to do this. Again. I got I've got so many things on my plate. And it's like, well, timeout did, did you talk to him? Did you let him know where you are or did you decide you wanted to be a martyr? So we encourage people to think about how they are engaging difficult people. Sometimes we can have a conversation, and I think you can almost say anything to someone if you know how to say it and if you know how to approach it. If you can approach it in a friendly way or professional way. Often we make assumptions about other people that are just wrong. So that's part of it. But there's also Scott, as you said, that point that there are some people who should not be in our lives there are some people who are toxic. And there are some times when we're going to do everything we can. And at the end of the day, we might want to say, "You know what, this is not about boundaries anymore. This is just a person I need to cut out of my life."
Scott Allen 15:20
Hmm, there's a really pointed stance that you take there, which I think is valuable. Because to your point, I think people have individuals in their lives, or they're in situations where they haven't taken command, they haven't had the difficult conversation, or they win, they have set up the boundaries, and the boundaries have continually been broken, they continue to put up with it. And to your point, there may be times when it's not, it's not going to be a thriving relationship on either end. And let's move on.
Joe Hart 15:55
I think there's a progression. So which is number one? Do you have boundaries in a relationship? Sometimes people treat us only how we allow ourselves to be treated. We've got some stories in the book; you know about Michael, my co-author, who is dealing with someone who is it very difficult, and until Michael set boundaries that said, "if you crossed this line, we're done." But that changed the dynamic. But do you have boundaries? Do you communicate boundaries, if the person doesn't respect the boundaries, then that's a different situation. There are some people in some situations where, you know, we should never allow ourselves to be treated a certain way, we should never let to be engaged with people who would behave in a way that harms us.
Scott Allen 16:36
Another component of this Taking Command of Your Relationships that I really enjoyed, was the notion of 'Ditching Criticism.' As I was listening to that section, I was thinking about, Okay, well, here he is, he's writing a book, and there's someone online who has written something at this point. Someone on Amazon, you can just go look at my Amazon books, and, you know, you figure out pretty quickly how people feel. But I think that's such an important message, especially in today's world, where literally anyone from anywhere in the world can impact, your thoughts, going back to Take Command of Your Thoughts, right, so ditching that criticism and standing on your own two feet. And it kind of, in my mind, perhaps us for section three. But I would love to hear you talk a little bit about that whole Ditching Criticism because woof, that's a big one.
Joe Hart 17:32
It's a big one. And it's a hard one for most of us; no one likes to get criticized. And so that chapter deals with two things, which are how to give criticism, and we talk about the importance of giving feedback, which is different than criticism. And then how do you receive criticism? And what kind of criticism really should I even pay attention to? Because, you know, not all criticism is created equal, so to speak; there are people that we respect, and there are people that we don't, and there is criticism that is helpful to us and is given to us by someone who cares about us and is trying to help us grow. And we have to own the fact that there are mean destructive, troubled people out there and who bring their stuff into a relationship into work into an online post and whatever. And it's exactly as she said, though, Scott, we decide then how much energy we're going to allow that to have. So that chapter really gives of my favorite stories in that chapter is about an artist in Canada. His name is Callen Schaub, he has made this very creative. He's got this approach to painting, which, you know, many people will look at; it's like this rainbow art. Hopefully, I'll throw paint on the canvas and so forth. And people would say, This isn't right. This is fake art. He's horribly trolled online. And that hasn't deterred him. He has, in fact, acquired the domain, I guess, you know, www.fakeart.com and has posted his stuff there and, and has taken some of the literally the posts that people have had these brutal posts, and he's turned those posts into art, you know. You gotta imagine he's got a good sense of humor about things. But you know, you can imagine how he lives in his emotional health and mental health versus if he let those things get under his skin. The reality is that it doesn't matter who we are, how nice we are, how good we are, we think we are, some people are not going to like us. And we're going to kind of deal with that.
Scott Allen 19:37
When you use this word, you've used it in the conversation so far today. And people listen to the podcast and know this is just one of my absolute favorite words. Curiosity is one of my favorite words. But then intentionality is one of my favorite words as well. And as we move into this third section, we start talking about living that intentional life again, taking command of your future. And I've used the phrase earlier driving, you're driving, and you're taking command of your future and setting the course, so to speak, with intention, which I just love.
Joe Hart 20:14
Yeah, thank you. It's something that maybe this is the wrong way to put it. But we need to be "intentional about being intentional." And what I mean is that
Scott Allen 20:25
That was very "meta," Joe.
Joe Hart 20:29
That's a deep thought for today, I suppose. Our lives are so busy nine out of 10 people, I think if you said how you are? They'd say, "I'm busy. I'm so busy; I got so much going on." And and they do; they got a lot of things going on. And so that what happens is we find ourselves going from thing to thing because it's on our calendar, someone put something in our calendar, or I've got this responsibility, or I've, I'm just really exhausted, I'm gonna sit down on the sofa, I'm going to do this, and that's all fine. But then, you know, as I said earlier in our discussion, months can go by, years can go by, you know, often, people who are on their deathbeds are asked about what they would have done differently. And they say, gosh, you know, I wish I had taken more chances. I wish I'd never really done the things I wanted to do, and then it's too late. And so this chapter, this, this part of Take Command, is about getting people to think about what's the vision you have for yourself, what are your values? What are the things that are important? What's your purpose? And what are the things you really want to accomplish? And set those things out and go get them because this third part of the book is about living the life that you want. And not somebody else's life, not just your life kind of goes by. But what do you want...and we have so many inspiring people in that part. I think it's one of the most inspiring parts of the book. Are all of these stories about people who have made or are making just an incredible difference in the lives of other people in the lives of the world, and some Scott are big, you know, we have Daniela Fernandez, who at 19, was just so passionate about the oceans. And she ultimately started what has become the largest Sustainable Ocean Alliance in the world, and she is under 30. You know, so you've got big things like that. And then you've got little things. I talked about a very personal story about my father a recovering alcoholic who went 51 years without a drink of alcohol. And he spent all those years in AA, supporting other people as a sponsor, just trying to save people and because it's who he was. So those are day-to-day kinds of things. There are big things. But what's the impact that we want to have?
Scott Allen 22:38
Well, I love that part of the book. And it was such a really, really touching story. What was it that he told you he was going to kind of community meetings?
Joe Hart 22:47
Township. Yeah, as a kid, he'd say he was going to 'township' meetings. And I remember thinking to myself, I didn't realize that all the dads in town are so civicly minded. I guess it's just my civic responsibility. When I get older, say that a township meeting. And I actually had one point I thought about going into politics because it's just I kept seeing that. But when he got... when I got older, and I was, he told me that the township meetings were really AA. And I didn't mind because I understood that it was a complex thing that talked to a kid about. I'm very proud of him and what he did...because 51 years without a drink...he was kind of a local hero in that chapter.
Scott Allen 23:29
Yeah. And I think it's such a beautiful, beautiful way of serving your community. And they were township meetings, just maybe not how you were thinking of a township meeting. It was this was during the pandemic, and one night, we were having dinner with my family. And these three P's just kind of popped into my head; I looked at the kids, and I said, "life is kind of about the people, the place, and the purpose, you know, are you surrounding yourself with people that help you thrive? And are you in a place in an environment that can help you be the best version of yourself? And have you figured out why you're here and what difference you want to make in the world? And to your point, it could be something that is on a, on a local scale, or it could be something that is international. But I do think at times; I wonder if that's where there's a lot of challenges in the world when people aren't able to haven't taken command. And in some instances, they're in situations where they have very little power to live into that purpose...live into who they're intended to be, being able to give that gift to the world and thrive in that way.
Joe Hart 24:36
And it's true. I think that that does happen. People might not think about it. The truth is, so many people, of us, are trying to provide for ourselves or providing for our families, and those are all noble and important and critical things to do. So you think about Maslow's hierarchy. We talk about self-actualization, some of us, it's hard To get there when we're taking care of the bills and taking care of our kids and taking care of all the other things that are going on. And part of what this part of the book of Take Command is about is it no matter what you have going on and where you are, this is your life right now. So here are some suggestions and some ways that you can carve out some time, even in the small parts of your day, to be intentional so that you can live the life that you want. Because you know, sometimes if you don't do that, you get years into your life, and you get bitter, resentful and upset that you were dragged or pulled and all these different things. And yet, you haven't done the things that really important to you.
Scott Allen 25:41
Well, Joe, is there any other point from the book or something that you would just like to really bold or underline that you would like listeners to walk away with as they reflect on our conversation and click that link to purchase, Take Command? Is there anything else that comes to mind that we haven't touched on that you want people to know about?
Joe Hart 26:00
You know, the one thing I'd say is you might know my dad always talked about how life is great. Dale Carnegie said this, Dale Carnegie talked about, you know, "this is your life; go on, live it with gusto," and so forth. And, and my encouragement, I think we've kind of talked about this, but my encouragement would be, just remember how awesome life is. Life every single day is an opportunity if we've got the right mindset. Even amidst struggle and the rough things that can happen in life, there is an opportunity for joy. I would encourage people to think that. And if it's hard to think that, I would hope that the book is something that can help you get there. Our desire Michael's and desire, was to really connect people to Dale Carnegie's principles that have helped us. And for this to be a blueprint so that if people read the book, they listen to the book, and they say, wow, it was really a great book, I'll give it five stars. That's great, we appreciate it, but if it doesn't cause people to change, or do something differently, and from our standpoint, it's been a failure, you know, we really want to help impact people. And I would also say, Scott, that thing that started this Take Command inspired me, inspired Michael. I took a Dale Carnegie course as a young man, and it changed the entire direction of my life, Michael, the same thing. And so many people around the world who I've talked to, who will say I took a Dale Carnegie program, as a teen, I took it as a young adult, like whenever, or I read how to win friends, you know, this stuff is among the most valuable stuff that I've ever experienced in my life. So I hope that Take Command will inspire others to go read about Dale or take a Dale Carnegie course or experience this because it can help you live the life that you want.
Scott Allen 27:45
Well, how many years in a row? Has it been on the bestseller list?
Joe Hart 27:49
We're in our 87th year of the bestseller list. In fact, I looked the other day in the category because I'm looking at the best sellers and so forth. And in this category, I think of self-improvement. This is still the number one book right now. So you ask yourself, Scott, like, "what is it that makes a book bestseller for 87 years?"
Scott Allen 28:13
I almost swore. But it's some timeless stuff.
Joe Hart 28:18
Timeless. Yes, enduring, it's impactful. And I think it's certainly helped me, and I'm grateful for it. I have a great debt for what I received.
Scott Allen 28:29
Well, Joe, you said something that really resonated for me also because I posted a couple of days; I don't know; it may be like five years ago, I was walking to the classroom. And there was a young woman who was walking in with me. And I said, "How are you doing?" And she said, "Well, I'm here." And that comment, for some reason, sparked a question in my head, which was, well, what are the odds of us being here? So I got into the classroom a little bit early and did this quick little Google search of, you know, what are the odds of us being here as human beings. And I came across this infographic, and I'm going to put it in, I'll put the link in the show notes. I have not done the mathematics, so I can't tell you that this is factually true listeners and Joe. But at the end of this infographic, after going through all kinds of different things like sperm meeting egg, and just any number of other iterations of content, the likelihood of your parent's meeting, etc. The conclusion was it's as if 2 million people were rolling a 3 trillion-sided die, and they all got the same number. Those are the odds. Those are the odds of us being here. So I posted that on LinkedIn the other day and said, you know, we've won the lottery. Do something good with it. Right?
Joe Hart 29:48
It's pretty cool. Then what are the odds of you and I have in this conversation right?
Scott Allen 29:53
It says if 4 million people... we're here, and we won the lottery.
Joe Hart 30:03
But then again, I do think such a big part of this is a mindset, you know when you have the mindset you have and are talking about, you know, then you can see that as positivity. And somebody else might be like, "Well, I'm here, you know, and it's like, I'm just getting through things." And that's not to take away from the really hard times that people have. I have tremendous empathy for that and want to help people with that. It's probably the reason we have Take Command and Dale Carnegie is to help people discover their greatness and have breakthroughs in their lives. But there's, there's, no reason that we can't find the joy around us, whether it's in the people, but the opportunities are in 1001 different things.
Scott Allen 30:48
well, listeners, I would encourage you to download the Audible to purchase the book, and give it as a gift, and it might change someone's life. And again, like we started off with Joe, I love the spirit that Take Command that we can Take Command at all three levels and that we can own it. And we can drive. And we can live lives of purpose with people who help us thrive. Bottom line.
Joe Hart 31:19
That's it. You got it. Thank you. Are you ready to go on the speaking circuit with me?
Scott Allen 31:24
I'll be your warmup act?!
Joe Hart 31:27
I love it. You are articulate; you have this down. And great we did get more people out just because I do think - in all seriousness, there's an opportunity for each of us to inspire other people. So the mindset we have is contagious, whether it's it whether for good or not for good. So why not inspire people to the good to the opportunity to the best part of themselves that they can, versus that person that no one wants to be around because they're just so negative all the time?
Scott Allen 31:59
Exactly. As we wind down, I always ask guests what they're listening to streaming, what they're reading, what's something that's caught your eye that might be other than Take Command, what's something that's caught your eye in recent times that you want listeners to know about? I mean, you've interviewed some incredible authors on your podcast. But what's caught your attention lately, and I'm going to give you one of mine too, which I think you might enjoy?
Joe Hart 32:24
Someone I had on my podcast, who I've really enjoyed getting to know and it's really been sparking a lot of thoughts for me and development for me is Dr. Marshall Goldsmith, but maybe a few months ago, I read The Earned Life, which is his newest book, I am rereading that again, because it's the kind of book that's so valuable that it's not just one you read once, but I'm reading it and highlighting it a habit and some books that I really love I'll have on Audible, I might even have an audible on all of the hardcopy, I might even have it on Kindle, just so that the audible and the Kindle sync together. But you know, so much of what he is talking about, it goes to what we're saying here, you know, what is an earned life? And what are the things that we need to do? And how do you avoid regret? And how do you really maximize that intentionality, but he's also just a human being? I've gotten to know Marshall more recently, personally, and in some good conversations with him. In fact, he's got a new documentary that was out that I watched the other night, and it's on Amazon Prime and can be very much worth it. Okay. And it just, you know, and things that inspire me to want to be even better at the kind of keep me sharp and I find Marshall to be one of those people.
Scott Allen 33:37
Well, he has one of my favorite book titles of all time, 'What Got You Here Won't Get You There,' right? So I, you know, have spent years and years and years really only listening to nonfiction. And so, for the first time, I read a book this was a recommendation of a guest, John Antonakis. And there was a book called Stoner, and it was about a professor in a school in Missouri. And this gentleman's life, Joe, was one of the most boring books I've ever read. Actually, I listened to it. But I found myself sitting in the garage, waiting to see what happened next...
Joe Hart 34:20
Wait, it was boring, but you're waiting to see what happened next?
Scott Allen 34:24
The writing in this book was so incredibly beautiful. The picture that this author was painting with words was just awesome. So I started to fall in love a little bit with fiction. And so I just finished All the Light You Cannot See. And it was by a gentleman named Anthony Doerr. It's a book that takes place during World War II. And you have a young girl in France, and you have a young soldier from Germany, and their paths can verge, and like Stoner (and this it was called stoner because that was the last name the professor). But in this book, the writing is so beautiful in the picture painted with words. It's well worth a listen. It's well worth the read - All the Light We Cannot See - just incredible.
Joe Hart 35:20
Thanks for suggesting that. I know I've got so many Audible credits leftover that keep coming in every month, and I can't keep up. So, I'll check that one out.
Scott Allen 35:29
Yeah, it's great. It's absolutely wonderful. And it's one of those words bouncing around in the timeline. So it takes a little bit of time to get used to. But I was captivated. I was captivated. And now I've moved on like I was saying before, to Rick Rubin, The Creative Act. So that's kind of an interesting switch from Take Command. Everyone's creative in their way. And he's trying to promote that. So that's been a fun listen as well. Okay, sir, until next time, thank you very, very much for being here. We appreciate it.
Joe Hart 35:57
Thank you. Thanks for having me back.
Scott Allen 35:58
Okay, bye-bye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai